Another article showing concern in the housing market- yet the author may have lacked critical thinking

[GON]

I don't tell kids to go into the military anymore. If they're adamant about it, I tell them do not waste their time in the reserves since you're nothing more than a civilian in the government's eyes until you do 2 years active service. Do their 4 years active and get out; the benefits aren't worth the BS that goes on after service.

We look at things differently reference service in the Armed Forces. First and foremost, it is about service to country. The benefits are good, sometimes very good in the regular army, guard, or reserves. As with any profession, it comes down to leadership. When in the military, if one has a solid leader- serving is an enjoyable endeavor. The Guard and Reserves are often a great way to serve without leaving one's hometown.

My youngest Son entered boot camp 36 hours ago. As long as his drill sergeants have a high expectation of standards and discipline and are caring leaders- my Son will learn many lifelong lessons at boot camp. He signed a four-year contract- I would have preferred he sign a two year, and then reenlist if he wanted to- but my Son is an adult and it was his decision.

Sorry you have a negative instinct on joining the military. Military service is not peaches and cream- but it is a great way to serve one's country and improve and grow many ways individually.

 

[Pew]

We look at things differently reference service in the Armed Forces. First and foremost, it is about service to country. The benefits are good, sometimes very good in the regular army, guard, or reserves. As with any profession, it comes down to leadership. When in the military, if one has a solid leader- serving is an enjoyable endeavor. The Guard and Reserves are often a great way to serve without leaving one's hometown.

My youngest Son entered boot camp 36 hours ago. As long as his drill sergeants have a high expectation of standards and discipline and are caring leaders- my Son will learn many lifelong lessons at boot camp. He signed a four-year contract- I would have preferred he sign a two year, and then reenlist if he wanted to- but my Son is an adult and it was his decision.

Sorry you have a negative instinct on joining the military. Military service is not peaches and cream- but it is a great way to serve one's country and improve and grow many ways individually.

Indeed I agree that the military service should always be about service to one's country first although once you get in, you realize and start to empathize with the reasons on why people join. You definitely hit it on the head where good, proper leadership makes or breaks your experience as well. I was indebted to at least serve the country that gave me and my family the ability to live here; zero regrets. It's after I got out and got a job at the VA where I changed some of my attitude towards it all. Without being political/detailed, at least now Lcpl Schmuckatelly can use their post 9/11 GI Bill with both legs and parents don't have to bury their kid.

But yes the VA loan and the post 9/11 bill for education/training is an amazing place to start off. I tell everybody to make sure they fully use their benefits.

 

[zzyzzx]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/home-prices-falling-faster-now-194540822.html

Home prices are falling faster now than in 2006​

 

[alarmguy]

Of course anybody that can work hard can buy a house. I'm not saying hard work doesn't work, except today's generation is working twice as hard in order to succeed in their own life and make up for the greed of previous generations.

The first people I've seen to complain were always older generations. "Back in my day we worked hard!" "Back in my day there were real men!" "Back in my day we made things work!" "This new generation doesn't know what real work is!" Those "back in my day" guys lived in a world where they benefitted from half the world being bombed out, with lead paint, pipes, and hid under a desk in case a nuke fell.

Your link shows the home ownership boom entirely within the boomer era. Home ownership must have been easy to achieve back then.

EDIT: Maybe I'm just angry when people blaming younger generations. The 'back in my day' people are insufferable. I like talking and learning from the older generations, but it irks me bad when they start blaming younger generations.



I don't tell kids to go into the military anymore. If they're adamant about it, I tell them do not waste their time in the reserves since you're nothing more than a civilian in the government's eyes until you do 2 years active service. Do their 4 years active and get out; the benefits aren't worth the BS that goes on after service.

Clearly we can't have a conversation, you seem to have some type of prejudice, its clear from your words and inability to understand the chart. You seem so jaded that you cant even look at the chart supplied, showing todays home ownership rates are among the highest in recorded history to present, from 1970 with a peak in 2005 before the crash and another peak in 2020 BEFORE COVID!! *LOL* that is ONLY 1.2% lower AND in any given year within 2% *LOL* I mean really.
You are angry it seems at the world, pointless commenting any further except one last time show you the facts. I am clueless why some people think its up to other people to make their lives happy and fulfilling. Even trying to discount the proof in the chart.
Wow... and the "back in my day" referrals, your the one complaining not the older generation ... its very apparent. I don get sometimes the mentality that the inability to buy a house is someone else's fault, maybe that is why you hear "back in my day" a lot.

US Historical Homeownership Rate: 1890 to 2024 - DQYDJ

We mine old data sources for the historical homeownership rate in the United States, and find some old data back to the 1890s.

dqydj.com

 

[alarmguy]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/home-prices-falling-faster-now-194540822.html

Home prices are falling faster now than in 2006​

Yes, I have mentioned in here many times before reporters even knew that rising interest rates lower home prices. But the payment will be the same.
The public can afford a certain payment.
So. ...
Either the home seller is getting the payment in a higher sale price
or
The bank is getting the money in higher interest rates

Cost to the buyer = is the same payment. In fact the downpayment will be less as interest rates rise. There is then that time period of "flux" the change from low rates to high rates means homes prices adjust, this takes time. We here in SC are actually still in a hot market, just mentioned in realtor.com Columbia SC and some place in TN are the two southern hotspots.

 

[alarmguy]

deleted

 

[KrisZ]

I think young people today have a much, much harder task at starting a family and acquiring a home. Yes, one cannot blame others for not being able to afford something, but that doesn’t change the fact that the barriers are higher now.

There is not need to go into inflations, interest rates etc, because there is one, very simple and direct comparison, one household income used to be able to sustain a family and provide all the necessities, now it takes two incomes for the same level of living standard.

 

[alarmguy]

There is not need to go into inflations, interest rates etc, because one there is one, very simple and direct comparison, one household income used to be able to sustain a family and provide all the necessities, now it takes two incomes for the same level of living standard.

Not really if one thinks about it. The standard of living by some peoples measurements are boatloads higher than they used to be.
So its not really the "same level of living standard" its one that goes way beyond what used to be "provide all the necessities" peer pre pressure and keep up with the Jones next door started that. What took place after that I can agree ... which goes back to my saying a posted many times in here, even a few posts up. Now you have two income families buying homes and the price is? Answer = what the public can afford.

So these two income households switched up and changed out the stay at home mom that used to be, now more family income, higher home prices because the public can afford them. Then it snowballs to everyone having to work because the majority are now doing that.
Bottom line, home ownership has not changed for decades now and is actually higher except for that rare economic dip.

With all the above, one must also ask, this has also freed woman to be their own person and not be forced to be dependent on someone else for their food and housing. I mean, think about what some used to have to put up with. I am sure many woman agree being independent and free choice is a good thing.

 

[KrisZ]

Not really if one thinks about it. The standard of living by some peoples measurements are boatloads higher than they used to be.

If you look at the standard of living the boomers enjoyed when compared to the generation before, wouldn’t you say it was boatloads higher?

What used to take one income, now takes two. You seem to think that families switched to two incomes and that caused higher prices. I think the opposite is true, families switched to two incomes out of necessity rather than convenience.

With all the above, one must also ask, this has also freed woman to be their own person and not be forced to be dependent on someone else for their food and housing. I mean, think about what some used to have to put up with.

That’s the common narrative, but data doesn’t support this. Women’s stress levels are higher than ever and about 1 in 10 women are on antidepressants. The older they get, the more depressed they become. Data shows that more than half of women will be alone going into their mid life and die alone. Sure sounds like liberation to me.

 

[Rmay635703]

Clearly we can't have a conversation, you seem to have some type of prejudice, its clear from your words and inability to understand the chart.

Even trying to discount the proof in the chart

US Historical Homeownership Rate: 1890 to 2024 - DQYDJ

We mine old data sources for the historical homeownership rate in the United States, and find some old data back to the 1890s.

dqydj.com

Speaking of chart can you find me a particular chart?
in college one of my college professors had made a chart that showed the percentage of “properties “ with a mortgage (not homes)
The percentage with general debt
And the debt to income ratios
All on one graph plotted over time from 1900 onward, there were times that the number of properties with debt owed was extremely low.

that was in 2004 and he said based on the charts we are going to have a series of large housing collapses as we had systemic non-market problems that force excessive debt tolerance.

Much of the blame was focused on the stabilizing effects of glass segal on markets and making austerity apart of decisions
As opposed to what happened after Glass segal was repealed where austerity wasn’t a concern because of the governments tendency to just bail out bad actors
(as happened repeatedly in the 1980’s)

That’s the common narrative, but data doesn’t support this. Women’s stress levels are higher than ever and about 1 in 10 women are on antidepressants. The older they get, the more depressed they become. Data shows that more than half of women will be alone going into their mid life and die alone. Sure sounds like liberation to me.

According to the census 64% of men 18-39 were single not married no kids.

That data is already obsolete and the real numbers are around 70%

Womens numbers are less sobering but they also tend to divorce and have fewer lasting relationships .

Choosing men for checkboxes will have real and lasting problems including this housing discussion, as much as a spouse can be a pain, roommates can be worse.

 

[alarmguy]

If you look at the standard of living the boomers enjoyed when compared to the generation before, wouldn’t you say it was boatloads higher?

What used to take one income, now takes two. You seem to think that families switched to two incomes and that caused higher prices. I think the opposite is true, families switched to two incomes out of necessity rather than convenience.


That’s the common narrative, but data doesn’t support this. Women’s stress levels are higher than ever and about 1 in 10 women are on antidepressants. The older they get, the more depressed they become. Data shows that more than half of women will be alone going into their mid life and die alone. Sure sounds like liberation to me.

Statistics for everything now, they didnt exist back then. But that is ok.
So you dont think the standard of living is higher now?

 

[KrisZ]

Statistics for everything now, they didnt exist back then. But that is ok.
So you dont think the standard of living is higher now?

I’ll reply with your own words to another poster in this thread.

Clearly we can't have a conversation, you seem to have some type of prejudice,

 

[alarmguy]

Speaking of chart can you find me a particular chart?
in college one of my college professors had made a chart that showed the percentage of “properties “ with a mortgage (not homes)
The percentage with general debt
And the debt to income ratios
All on one graph plotted over time from 1900 onward, there were times that the number of properties with debt owed was extremely low.

that was in 2004 and he said based on the charts we are going to have a series of large housing collapses as we had systemic non-market problems that force excessive debt tolerance.

Much of the blame was focused on the stabilizing effects of glass segal on markets and making austerity apart of decisions
As opposed to what happened after Glass segal was repealed where austerity wasn’t a concern because of the governments tendency to just bail out bad actors
(as happened repeatedly in the 1980’s)

Why ask me?
Anyone can do a simple search of percentage of home ownership over the years.
Im shocked at the lack of factual information (not saying you) in this thread.
Things can be twisted anyway anyone wants and thee is always an excuse to complain. The ones that arent complaining are the ones that make things happen and "do"
At least you agree the standard of living is higher, to deny that would really kill the debate.
ANYWAY, Im getting off subject. Home ownership is the same as it always has been within a difference of a percent or two and hangs in there as the highest in modern history.
Whether two people decide to work that is up to them and choices they make in life. These are facts, an inconvenient truth if I might say.

 

[alarmguy]

deleted.

 

[KrisZ]

@alarmguy lets break it down then, shall we?

Your original comment about increase of todays standard of living is a major contributor of everything costing more and requiring two incomes. I simply asked if boomers had a way higher standard of living then the silent generation. You didn’t answer that.


As far as stress levels, it is women that are more stressed and on antidepressants.

https://www.mdedge.com/psychiatry/a...epressant-use-shows-gender-racial-disparities


Women are also increasingly rating their life as unhappy, or unfulfilling. And it seems the more “free” or independent they are, the more unhappy their lives. Men’s happiness stayed relatively flat over the decades. This directly contradicts the notion that women were very unhappy staying home and raising families.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th.../womens-rights-happiness-wellbeing-gender-gap

 

[Rmay635703]

??
You got me on that one... also, please post the "statistics" of men on anti depressants. What good is a number for one sex without the other?
You do know I am sure, there are drugs for every ailment that people think they have of which didnt exist at one time, you just dealt with it.

Seems like you agree the standard of living is higher now.

Men have less access to care for a variety of reasons, the rise of misinformation and the rise many hate groups being one outlet showing the rise in male problems.

Why ask me?
Anyone can do a simple search of percentage of home ownership over the years.
Im shocked at the lack of factual information (not saying you) in this thread.

No what I asked for takes many hours of work because it’s not the right narrative,

you can find the specific thing I asked for as it applies to Canada 2015 to present but you have to scrapbook one together yourself for the us as the data is not normally presented outside an economics class.

If I feel like it I will go year by year and post a homemade special, it makes big market problems as they relate to debt and outstanding mortgages visual, also shows a long term trend.

As for me I have not found a graph as I described posted online, if you want to superimpose the diverging lines of “ownership “ vrs debt that too is interesting even if academic , would show the drops in paid off property as “ownership” increases

 

[alarmguy]

@alarmguy lets break it down then, shall we?

Your original comment about increase of todays standard of living is a major contributor of everything costing more and requiring two incomes. I simply asked if boomers had a way higher standard of living then the silent generation. You didn’t answer that.

I didnt see that question. But the standard of living increases with each generation. Except for this, someone will pay = https://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

[alarmguy]

Men have less access to care for a variety of reasons, the rise of misinformation and the rise many hate groups being one outlet showing the rise in male problems.



No what I asked for takes many hours of work because it’s not the right narrative,

you can find the specific thing I asked for as it applies to Canada 2015 to present but you have to scrapbook one together yourself for the us as the data is not normally presented outside an economics class.

If I feel like it I will go year by year and post a homemade special, it makes big market problems as they relate to debt and outstanding mortgages visual, also shows a long term trend.

As for me I have not found a graph as I described posted online, if you want to superimpose the diverging lines of “ownership “ vrs debt that too is interesting even if academic , would show the drops in paid off property as “ownership” increases

I dont have any interest in this. Homeownership is at historical highs for a couple decades now, nothing has changed and my only response in this thread, yeah, I admit going off track in discussion which is the case when people deny this. Debt to income ratio at the time of a mortgage is constant and required for conforming mortgages or you cant buy a house.
Whether (which is also the case) one decides to borrow money for things they cant afford is a personal choice.
Whether or not someone takes drugs for depression, whether or not a couple decides to both work, all personal choices. Homeownership is at an all time high except for economic fluctuations in any economy and even then varies less than 2%

I cant add anything to this thread. *LOL* Maybe I should have just stuck to the statement above but allowed myself to get drawn into the blame someone else excuse category ... peace.

 

[Pew]

Clearly we can't have a conversation, you seem to have some type of prejudice, its clear from your words and inability to understand the chart. You seem so jaded that you cant even look at the chart supplied, showing todays home ownership rates are among the highest in recorded history to present, from 1970 with a peak in 2005 before the crash and another peak in 2020 BEFORE COVID!! *LOL* that is ONLY 1.2% lower AND in any given year within 2% *LOL* I mean really.
You are angry it seems at the world, pointless commenting any further except one last time show you the facts. I am clueless why some people think its up to other people to make their lives happy and fulfilling. Even trying to discount the proof in the chart.
Wow... and the "back in my day" referrals, your the one complaining not the older generation ... its very apparent. I don get sometimes the mentality that the inability to buy a house is someone else's fault, maybe that is why you hear "back in my day" a lot.

US Historical Homeownership Rate: 1890 to 2024 - DQYDJ

We mine old data sources for the historical homeownership rate in the United States, and find some old data back to the 1890s.

dqydj.com

I've never said mine or anybody issues were the problems that other people need to solve. I've never believed that so you made that up. The majority of my post were towards you blaming the younger generation for some reason and it's quite common for you to do so. I truthfully don't know much about the housing market but I also don't blame subsequent generations for the greed and arrogance that preceding generations made to benefit themselves. I merely stated anecdotally that people from previous generations can work a grocery store job while buying a hose and raising a family. It was definitely easy enough to have only one household income earner. The new generation just has to clean up everybody else's mess while trying to advance with their own life. There's no stability.

Your homeownership link shows the ownership rise sharply as the WW2 vets came back from and levels out at the end of the boomer age. So why did it level out so fast, why has every boom resulted in bust, why didn't we see similar levels of home ownership before WW2 and why are we still stagnant after 60 years?

I didnt see that question. But the standard of living increases with each generation. Except for this, someone will pay = https://www.usdebtclock.org/

With each new generation comes new standards. Technological advancements are there only to those who take advantage of them. Do you think the silent gen weren't thinking the same thing about the boomer gen or the boomer gen thinking the same thing about GenX? "Electric washing machines, dryers, TV, phones, radio, affordable cars, clean running water, paved roadways, fancy clothes, fancy hairstylists, oh my how luxurious and easy these new generations have it!" Heck, when phones became a common household appliance, I bet somebody complained how people were going to be too lazy to go outside and talk face-to-face.

 

[KrisZ]

Homeownership is at an all time high except for economic fluctuations in any economy and even then varies less than 2%

You cling to this statement and although true, doesn’t tell the whole story, but it’s convenient to you. What you forget is that these are properties and they accumulate in the market. They get inherited, sold, resold etc. the number will naturally only climb, unless there is a natural disaster that wipes them out.

Also, let’s take a look at the chart you provided. The steep incline batween the red lines is from 1940 to roughly 1975. That’s the time when single family income was the norm. Home ownership was a lot more affordable to an average family. And that was the time when the standard of living increased by a lot. People were also buying cars, tons of them, vacations, flights. All available to the masses for the first time in history. So it’s not like people were only spending money on housing.