Another article showing concern in the housing market- yet the author may have lacked critical thinking

[alarmguy]

The post was an overall comment to the overall thread regarding house pricing and shortage. Yes, AirBNB or vacation homes are almost never starter homes but the shortage spans far more than starter homes. The the affordability debate was a very recent detour on a thread that has been active almost a year now, so as mentioned my comment was to the original post in this thread.

Of course everything is about location. According to the article you linked - which was quite interesting - in Asheville 16% of all homes are currently for sale. That's crazy. There are a few in my neighborhood that aren't moving either - which is a relatively recent phenomenon - like the last 4 or 5 months.

As for the insurance shock - Florida is one of the places with that problem and housing starts there continue to be strong. Not sure that has registered yet, although it might in the future?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FLBP1FH

I can see people wanting out of Asheville. It's been in decline for a while now. The shine has worn off, once that happens it takes years or decades to change public perceptions, yet we know that will not happen anytime soon in a permissive place.. Been there a number of times pre- 2018 But no desire anymore, Homelessness and crime up. Police short staffed. Complete mismanagement, leave it at that. (no politics)
https://www.citizen-times.com/story...rns-discussed-by-business-owners/69966937007/

Florida in contrast is still considered a law and order state. People feel safe there, the only issues are costs are rising fast.
Yet compared to people moving there still consider it reasonable and they feel safe.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I can see people wanting out of Asheville. It's been in decline for a while now. The shine has worn off. Been there a number of times pre- 2018 But no desire anymore, Homelessness and crime up. Police short staffed. Complete mismanagement, leave it at that. (no politics)
https://www.citizen-times.com/story...rns-discussed-by-business-owners/69966937007/

Florida in contrast is still considered a law and order state. People feel safe there, the only issues are costs are rising fast.
Yet compared to people moving there still considered reasonable.

Sure. But there can be different reasons in different areas. Crime in Asheville. Insurance costs in Florida. Etc. I grew up near a town where the largest employer announced one morning they were closing. Everyone’s home value halved in one instant.

 

[alarmguy]

Sure. But there can be different reasons in different areas. Crime in Asheville. Insurance costs in Florida. Etc. I grew up near a town where the largest employer announced one morning they were closing. Everyone’s home value halved in one instant.

Yeah but maybe it's how I grew up on Long Island. People will pay for safety and quality of life. People moving from that area today, still enjoy selling 70 year old homes on 60 x 100 foot lots averaging around 1500 sq ft (plus a basement in many cases) $500,000 to $700,000 +++++ Of which they paid roughly $900 to $1,200 a month in property taxes (and this is the low end of the market)
Move to Florida, pay similar insurance costs if not a bit higher, 50% less property taxes, no state income tax ect ect and most of all, feel safe with great medical facilities and nice climate in a new home no less.

I mean, crime and homeless on the streets are a huge turn off and I dont know anyone who would willingly move to an area like that, in the meantime existing residents are trying to flee.

I get what you are saying about employment but Florida is a retirement destination and playground for the wealthy, effects of economy doesn't play as much as some other areas. Here on the coast, kind of like the same thing. It's not a business area, it's a service area paid for by retirees with money in the bank. There is no dependance on industry and we are growing freaking crazy, scary fast. Personally I almost hate it but during my lifetime it will bring benefits.

 

[zzyzzx]

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I can see people wanting out of Asheville. It's been in decline for a while now. The shine has worn off, once that happens it takes years or decades to change public perceptions, yet we know that will not happen anytime soon in a permissive place.. Been there a number of times pre- 2018 But no desire anymore, Homelessness and crime up. Police short staffed. Complete mismanagement, leave it at that. (no politics)
https://www.citizen-times.com/story...rns-discussed-by-business-owners/69966937007/

Florida in contrast is still considered a law and order state. People feel safe there, the only issues are costs are rising fast.
Yet compared to people moving there still consider it reasonable and they feel safe.

I grew up near Asheville and was having a discussion about this with my mother just this past weekend. SCOTUS affirmed the 9th circuit ruling that homelessness isn't a crime so cities nationwide just pray that it never takes hold in their town. People incorrectly think this problem is related to a specific progressive public policy from city govt when it's more like zoning restrictions, and issues outside their control.

Martin v. Boise (2018)

 

[alarmguy]

I grew up near Asheville and was having a discussion about this with my mother just this past weekend. SCOTUS affirmed the 9th circuit ruling that homelessness isn't a crime so cities nationwide just pray that it never takes hold in their town. People incorrectly think this problem is related to a specific progressive public policy from city govt when it's more like zoning restrictions, and issues outside their control.

Martin v. Boise (2018)

This is incorrect, and possibly a common misconception?
One just has to look into the politics of any specific area. It took me literally four seconds of a story I remember reading within the last week and here is the quote.
It’s foolish for people to think that they do not have control over vagrancy, and it’s evident where this takes place but there’s no politics, and this is not the forum.

“In July, the city council passed an ordinance allowing homeless people to camp on public streets as long as they do not pose a threat to themselves and others. The action sparked an immediate backlash.”

I’m just quoting a news story and I will not comment further. This is not allowed here.
Voters have control over everything.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/austin-texas-homeless-encampments-health-safety

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

This is incorrect, and possibly a common misconception?
One just has to look into the politics of any specific area. It took me literally four seconds of a story I remember reading within the last week and here is the quote.
It’s foolish for people to think that they do not have control over vagrancy, and it’s evident where this takes place but there’s no politics, and this is not the forum.

“In July, the city council passed an ordinance allowing homeless people to camp on public streets as long as they do not pose a threat to themselves and others. The action sparked an immediate backlash.”

I’m just quoting a news story and I will not comment for the since to repeat. This is not allowed here.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/austin-texas-homeless-encampments-health-safety

Well of course it sparked a backlash because people are ignorant of the law and basic rights. Per your link the City of Austin moved homeless people into housing. The problem is that the city can't keep them there (i.e. imprisonment) so some portion leaves and ends back on the streets. This is in addition to the capacity problem and it is the problem that cities out west are having. A lack of capacity. As your link shows they don't have a solution. Even small towns outside Buncombe County are starting to have problems where homeless are camping in public parks.

It's only a matter of time before a city outside the 9th Circuit gets tested like Boise did in Martin vs Boise (2018).

Martin vs Boise revolves around capacity to house homeless. If a town has the capacity to house them they can kick people off the streets.

 

[alarmguy]

Well of course it sparked a backlash because people are ignorant of the law and basic rights. Per your link the City of Austin moved homeless people into housing. The problem is that the city can't keep them there (i.e. imprisonment) so some portion leaves and ends back on the streets. This is in addition to the capacity problem and it is the problem that cities out west are having. A lack of capacity. As your link shows they don't have a solution. Even small towns outside Buncombe County are starting to have problems where homeless are camping in public parks.

It's only a matter of time before a city outside the 9th Circuit gets tested like Boise did in Martin vs Boise (2018).

Martin vs Boise revolves around capacity to house homeless. If a town has the capacity to house them they can kick people off the streets.

We will never agree
I deport know how you overlook policies such as this and debate but this is not the forum for that.
“In July, the city council passed an ordinance allowing homeless people to camp on public streets as long as they do not pose a threat to themselves and others. The action sparked an immediate backlash.”

Good news is, we all have free will to live wherever we want and Americans are choosing to do so one just has to look at state wide statistics and see where people with the means are leaving. You dont think this permissiveness adds to a problem and why we will never agree, read up on NYC and their "right to shelter" laws.
Never mind the lack of law enforcement and code enforcement by policies in Asheville. This stuff isnt rocket science and it's nothing new in the last 100 years, its just how people vote to have their city run.
Ok, over and out.

 

[alarmguy]

Back to the housing market, Im tempted (maybe I will) to post photos of the amazing amount of home building going on here *LOL* it really is laughable, if your hearing negative media attention to the housing market, well then, one is just looking in the wrong areas or living in the wrong area.
Its so stupid every time I leave my home to go out, another foundation is being pouring, another home is being framed and I keep checking the listings but nothing stays for sale long enough to sometimes even catch what the price was. *LOL*
Meaning if I dont check everyday or two it is possible the house sells and I never see the price until it closes 6 months later.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

We will never agree
I deport know how you overlook policies such as this and debate but this is not the forum for that.
“In July, the city council passed an ordinance allowing homeless people to camp on public streets as long as they do not pose a threat to themselves and others. The action sparked an immediate backlash.”

Good news is, we all have free will to live wherever we want and Americans are choosing to do so one just has to look at state wide statistics and see where people with the means are leaving. You dont think this permissiveness adds to a problem and why we will never agree, read up on NYC and their "right to shelter" laws.
Never mind the lack of law enforcement and code enforcement by policies in Asheville. This stuff isnt rocket science and it's nothing new in the last 100 years.
Ok, over and out.

Our opinions are irrelevant because it's a matter of federal law (Martin vs Boise 2018). Cities are in a catch-22 due to voter ignorance. Voters don't understand that as federal law currently stands you can no longer kick homeless out of town. Back in the 1980's the homeless in my rural town would hang out in the public library.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_v._Boise

I could fix homelessness by banning the concept of public property.

 

[alarmguy]

Our opinions are irrelevant because it's a matter of federal law (Martin vs Boise 2018). Cities are in a catch-22 due to voter ignorance. Voters don't understand that as federal law currently stands you can no longer kick homeless out of town. Back in the 1980's the homeless in my rural town would hang out in the public library.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_v._Boise

I could fix homelessness by banning the concept of public property.

Many cities already have it fixed by not inviting them as in NYC, Asheville, Austin cities in CA ect. the list endless. Just look at the places that invite, never mind what Federal law says. Who cares
Federal law bans pot smoking, shooting drugs too, there is ALWAYS an easy way to discourage.

 

[zzyzzx]

https://markets.businessinsider.com...office-policies-home-sales-remote-work-2023-9

 

[zzyzzx]

https://www.redfin.com/news/housing-market-tracker-august-2023/

 

[Zee09]

https://www.redfin.com/news/housing-market-tracker-august-2023/

And yet the new home builders are still trying to fleece. They will continue even if the market implodes.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Many cities already have it fixed by not inviting them as in NYC, Asheville, Austin cities in CA ect. the list endless. Just look at the places that invite, never mind what Federal law says. Who cares
Federal law bans pot smoking, shooting drugs too, there is ALWAYS an easy way to discourage.

Lol. They're not getting invited. It's a combination of factors such as a service economy, high cost of living, weather, etc.

 

[odie]

And greed .

 

[zzyzzx]

 

[zzyzzx]

 

[PandaBear]

View attachment 180487

The problem with this line of thinking is the buyers are actually not cash buyers but mortgage buyers. These days those who buy with cash to sit on is parking their money against inflation as long as they can break even. You can thank low interest rate and large US debt, imploding investment market everywhere, massive QE for that. As a landlord I have to say it is actually a better deal to rent nowadays and just let the landlord hold the bag, and don't buy anything to fix up for rental, you can easily lose your shirt and you can easily get stuck with a bad tenant dealing with hostile eviction case or collection of past due amount.

The only soft landing I see is inflation will erase any pricing mismatch, but that's also bad for new landlords. A crash would also be bad for landlords but will quickly set the market back to a healthy number.

 

[GON]

The problem with this line of thinking is the buyers are actually not cash buyers but mortgage buyers. These days those who buy with cash to sit on is parking their money against inflation as long as they can break even. You can thank low interest rate and large US debt, imploding investment market everywhere, massive QE for that. As a landlord I have to say it is actually a better deal to rent nowadays and just let the landlord hold the bag, and don't buy anything to fix up for rental, you can easily lose your shirt and you can easily get stuck with a bad tenant dealing with hostile eviction case or collection of past due amount.

The only soft landing I see is inflation will erase any pricing mismatch, but that's also bad for new landlords. A crash would also be bad for landlords but will quickly set the market back to a healthy number.

Ph, your post is intriguing. I read an article of the top ten highest return for a landlord, and the top ten lowest return for a landlord.

Amoung the most profitable place to be a landlord were places like Shreveport, Louisiana and Peoria, Illinois.

Amoung the worst return in investment to be a landlord included San Francisco, Austin Texas, and Miami.

I was not expecting these type of results.