Believe me - I don't believe half of what I don't believe.
Another American beheaded in Iraq......
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Pablo we do actually get 30 min news from HK in Cantonese, it follws the Mandarin news from China. It starts at 6:00am on SBS, one of five FTA TV channels where I live. After Cantonese theres, Phillipine, Indonesian, Russian (my main interest), Italian, German, French, Arabic (interesting one), Greek, Spanish and Japanese.
You probably saw it on Dan Blather on 60 minutes.
And yes 10 prisioners died in Iraq and Afghanstan in 2 years. "The medical findings mean the deaths were linked to the actions of another person; however, that doesn't necessarily mean the deaths were criminal in nature, military officials said Friday"
Sadam killed that many before going to the potty every day. And another 10 after brushing his teeth.
Dan Blather in Australia?? I don't think sooo. We get that late night dude Letterman but it is just too bad to watch.
The story below has made a splash largely outside of the the US.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5761936/
Doctors working for the U.S. military in Iraq collaborated with interrogators in the abuse of detainees at Baghdad’s Abu Ghraib prison, profoundly breaching medical ethics and human rights, a bioethicist charges in The Lancet medical journal.
In a scathing analysis of the behavior of military doctors, nurses and medics, University of Minnesota professor Steven Miles calls for a reform of military medicine and an official investigation into the role played by physicians and other medical staff in the torture scandal.
He cites evidence that doctors or medics falsified death certificates to cover up homicides, hid evidence of beatings and revived a prisoner so he could be further tortured. No reports of abuses were initiated by medical personnel until the official investigation into Abu Ghraib began, he found.
“The medical system collaborated with designing and implementing psychologically and physically coercive interrogations,” Miles said in this week’s edition of Lancet. “Army officials stated that a physician and a psychiatrist helped design, approve and monitor interrogations at Abu Ghraib.”
The analysis does not shed light on how many doctors were involved or how widespread the problem of medical complicity was, aspects that Miles said he is now investigating.
A U.S. military spokesman said the incidents recounted by Miles came primarily from the Pentagon’s own investigation of the abuses.
“Many of these cases remain under investigation and charges will be brought against any individual where there is evidence of abuse,” said Lt. Col. Barry Johnson, U.S. Army spokesman for detainee operations in Iraq.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5761936/
Doctors working for the U.S. military in Iraq collaborated with interrogators in the abuse of detainees at Baghdad’s Abu Ghraib prison, profoundly breaching medical ethics and human rights, a bioethicist charges in The Lancet medical journal.
In a scathing analysis of the behavior of military doctors, nurses and medics, University of Minnesota professor Steven Miles calls for a reform of military medicine and an official investigation into the role played by physicians and other medical staff in the torture scandal.
He cites evidence that doctors or medics falsified death certificates to cover up homicides, hid evidence of beatings and revived a prisoner so he could be further tortured. No reports of abuses were initiated by medical personnel until the official investigation into Abu Ghraib began, he found.
“The medical system collaborated with designing and implementing psychologically and physically coercive interrogations,” Miles said in this week’s edition of Lancet. “Army officials stated that a physician and a psychiatrist helped design, approve and monitor interrogations at Abu Ghraib.”
The analysis does not shed light on how many doctors were involved or how widespread the problem of medical complicity was, aspects that Miles said he is now investigating.
A U.S. military spokesman said the incidents recounted by Miles came primarily from the Pentagon’s own investigation of the abuses.
“Many of these cases remain under investigation and charges will be brought against any individual where there is evidence of abuse,” said Lt. Col. Barry Johnson, U.S. Army spokesman for detainee operations in Iraq.
Thankyou!
It doesn’t seem ethical to me for an ethicist to pronounce guilt simply by reviewing the transcripts from congressional hearings, press reports, biased witnesses and the supposed victims who obviously have a motivation to lie. If this is the level of proof required by Steven Miles and others on this board to pass judgment in a criminal case, thank god they are not a potential juror in my area.
With that being said, I will be the first to condemn any criminals acts by any American soldier PROVEN guilty when given due process of law.
All the complaining about Iraq really revolves around two critical elements; hatred for the president and this country. Hatred for the president is really nothing more than a ploy by the democrats to regain power and motivate their base to ensure turnout. If the democrats really had a better plan, they would do something more than complain and would act substantively. If the democrat’s followers really cared, they would do something more than simply engender hatred among their peers over a cappuccino at the local coffee house. Hatred for this country is nothing more than people’s inane desire to bring down the “big man on campus.”
With that being said, I will be the first to condemn any criminals acts by any American soldier PROVEN guilty when given due process of law.
All the complaining about Iraq really revolves around two critical elements; hatred for the president and this country. Hatred for the president is really nothing more than a ploy by the democrats to regain power and motivate their base to ensure turnout. If the democrats really had a better plan, they would do something more than complain and would act substantively. If the democrat’s followers really cared, they would do something more than simply engender hatred among their peers over a cappuccino at the local coffee house. Hatred for this country is nothing more than people’s inane desire to bring down the “big man on campus.”
And definitely not in my case! In fact I've just had a brain wave (that doesn't happen often). For many many months I've struggled to understand inane responses to simple observational posts eg. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a box office hit. I've finally worked out that North Americans automatically think that describing a report you have read or a docco you saw or something you heard on the radio means 'YOU SUPPORT THAT VIEW'. In Australia it's the exact opposite. Never would it even enter my mind that somebody telling me something or seeing a dooco on TV etc actually supported what was being reported. This is a fundamental difference in the way we look at things and I now realise why you have such a closed media. You guys always shoot the messenger, we don't. Knowing this I guess I along with Shannow and others here will have to change the way we post which will probably be easier said than done. Just wish I'd worked this out earlier. Cheers...Steve
Sprintman, also starting about 25 or 30 years ago our major media in news, TV, and movies began choosing sides instead of just reporting or entertaining. People tend to gravitate to that which they agree with (I think).
The only problem with this is that your posts give you away. Why would all of your posts follow a like theme (on this and similar topics) if you are simply the messenger and only reporting what you’ve seen, heard and read and not on what you think about the topic? Why would you use adjectives like excellent if you didn’t agree with the documentary?
If you’re not interested in spirited debate and challenges to produce more evidence than website reports and articles in journals with obvious biases, why even post on these topics? Instead you rationalize in your mind a condescending thesis about North Americans desire to shoot the messenger. If this were the case these North Americans would petition the moderator to remove you as a member. I for one want everyone to be heard; just don’t ask me not to vigorously defend my viewpoint.
Good post JohnneyO. Maybe I have a little more age on you. Maybe it was hanging out at Grove City College much of the 60's. Thirty years does not go back to the early days of Vietnam and the civil rights movement. The Liberal, America can do no right bias started earlier. Just when is hard to say. The media liked John Kennedy. His assignation was a big blow to them, perhaps leaving some of them bitter and cynical. Johnson was an ugly old guy even if he did manage to move much of Kennedy's stalled programs through congress. When Kennedy's little war turned big and nasty, it was easy to stomp on Johnson. He was replaced by the even less appealing Nixon. Agnew provided the media their first taste of blood.
It has been down hill ever since. Perhaps Rather's outrage, along with developing alternatives will finally force the mainstream media to chose between getting back to straight reporting or becoming a backwater.
It has been down hill ever since. Perhaps Rather's outrage, along with developing alternatives will finally force the mainstream media to chose between getting back to straight reporting or becoming a backwater.
ant - An excellent documentary is one well researched, good filming, well scripted etc etc, you don't have to agree with the content. As an info junkie if it piques my interest it's "an excellent documentary". Those done by the Panorama team from UK are usually the best but locally ABC 'Four Corners' are excellent. And I hate America so much I worked for 3 decades for US companies, NASA put me in charge of US satellites at Orroral Valley Tracking Station when an 'accidental' incorrect transmission by me could write off a $500 million satelite (I think not). In my my house I have hundreds of Popular Hot rodding, Car Craft, Open Wheel, Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords, Super Chevy, 5.0 Mustang, Circle Track and countless other US magazines much to the chagrin of my wife. I only purchased cars with US engines and transmissions both Ford and Chev. My heroes were Bob Glidden, 'Dyno Don Nicholson, Bill 'Grumpy' Jenkins, Don Garlits, and Don 'The snake' Prudhomme. Everybody knows I'm a Sprintcar nut and to a lesser extent these days NAPCAR (used to be a lot better IMO). I own a Weber bbq with the gas ignition for the coals (fantastic) and ski on a H.O Turbo water ski and sno-ski on K2's, wear Scott Goggles etc. Yeah I guess it's obvious I really hate America!
The allegation was 20-30 murders at Abu Ghraib.
Weblink is posted. Per the article:
As I stated in my post:
A bunch of us call BS. We want data.
Weblink is posted. Per the article:
This is the only possible murder at Abu Ghraib. The remaining 9 happened elsewhere!!
As I stated in my post:
You guys drift from the facts so easily, it's not hard to believe your press is more lazy and biased than ours. Please.
Almost forgot: More than ever there is NO reason -NO justification for lopping off the heads of anyone.......especially those there to help. Two female Italian aid workers?? Where is the world outrage....oh that's right, directed at the USA!!!!!
sprintman said: "Oh and your forgetting the 20-30 murders at Ghraib and the other place being investigated and which one has aleady been charged."
I don't know what he meant by the 'other place' but he is talking about more than one place or just homicides confirmed by the Pentagon.
I don't know what he meant by the 'other place' but he is talking about more than one place or just homicides confirmed by the Pentagon.
10 prisioners died in Iraq and Afghanstan in 2 years. "The medical findings mean the deaths were linked to the actions of another person; however, that doesn't necessarily mean the deaths were criminal in nature, military officials said Friday"
If an American soldier steps on a c0ckroach it gets headlines in the left leaning media.
Careful.
The beheading stuff is deplorable. However, it is very effective for those practicing it, as it dries up the willingness of foreigners to take Iraq assignments, and drives up the cost of insurance to contractors interested in doing business in Iraq.
What a mess.
What a mess.
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