and yet another new mower!

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It's sad reading this thread. I had one of the early Honda HR-21 mowers. Ball bearing wheels, 3 speeds, properly designed alloy deck, instant no tools change from bagging to rear discharge.

http://world.honda.com/history/challenge/1978lawnmower/photo/01.html

$500 retail in 1981, I paid $400 for mine since I worked at a Honda dealer at the time. In 10 years of use the only thing I did to it was change the oil and air filter, sharpen the blade, and replace one wheel height adjuster. It would start in a single pull after sitting all winter with last years fuel still in the tank. It never used oil and consumed less than 1/2 the fuel of the Tecumseh engined mower it replaced.

Now is seems Honda has come to mean just more big box store junk. Sad...
 
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jsharp,
Why is a Honda mower just "big box store junk"? I guess that the Dewalt cordless tools and the Weber gas BBQ's are junk also. Less expensive doesn't always equal junk.

You could go and buy the same things for more money(especially the appliances), but why?

You also can get very low price extended warranty coverage.
When my 2yr old Maytag Neptune front loader washing machine started leaking water through the front seal, I contacted Lowes and a Technician was out in 1 day. When it was determined that it would take more than 5 days to get the parts and fix it, Lowes brought me a new one. Try that at your local appliance retailer.
 
"...runs at one speed only"

Believe the one-speed-only aspect, as found on my Toro, is due to the pollution laws in some locales (one being California) that is met, in part, by having the engine run only at full throttle. Another regulation (I believe it may be federal) limits blade speed for safety purposes.

Sheeesh, even mowers are getting complicated.

As with many products, a manufacturer can and will build/market separate classes of products with the "lower class" products sold at mass marketers and the higher-end products reserved for retailers who specialize in a product line and may have a contract with the manufacturer.

One exemplary example, anecdotal to its core, is when a certain cootish shanty dweller who will remain anonymous, purchased a Toro mower.

Ample on-line research conducted. Queried the mower fanatics at:

Mower mavens massed together

After much thought and visits to local retail outlets of all types, our anonymous potential purchaser ended up within the confines of Little Engines 5717 North 90th Street, Omaha, NE.


"Factory Certified Technicians, We Service All Types Of Outdoor Power Equipment, Country Clipper, Dr Trimmer, We Service Equipment Sold By These Retailers, K-Mart, Menards, Lowe's, Home Depot, Walmart, Sam's Club, TSC, Target, Sales & Service, Pick-Up & Delivery."

Golly, more space devoted to service/repair and a multitude of parts than new and used mowers. Yep, a specialized retailer for powered lawn equipment.

Noted was the differences in the mowers compared to the mowers sold by the non-specialized retailers such as Dome Hepot, Belowes and Mart-Wall. Model numbers differed along with how the different models varied in a few to many ways. This specialized dealer sold mowers with model numbers not to be seen on the mowers at the BIG box stores and vice versa.

The differences in the products may not have been major but did exist. Our potential buyer decided to spend a little more to obtain an extra three years of warranty (included by manufacturer with this model) and a seller where redress of problems included the on-site availability of technicians and parts.

Since one intent of mower usage was to continue mowing the neighbor's lawn for fun and profit, an extra expenditure for quality would be paid for from for-profit mowing. Zooming into the future, three years of part-time profit mowing has paid for a good portion of the mower's cost; a wonderful thing.

Seller tossed in three free mini-jugs of oil and an air filter. Noting a sale on Stihl eaters of weeds, purchaser X procured a mid-grade model and began charging fee-paying users of lawn chopping services an extra 10 bucks when Stihl was used. Doing so paid for the item. Another marvelous thing. Three years later the eater of weeds still starts quickly with minimal effort and runs like the wind or Forest Gump. Seller tossed in 5 bottles of 2-stroke oil and what appears to be a lifetime supply of the highest-quality top-of-the-line eater of weed string colored high-impact orange so as to apparently make a statement about the persona of the user. Sadly, females do appear to be impressed.

Eater of weeds was an impulse purchase so no research done; trusted the apparently very knowledgeable sales human. After three years usage with 100-percent reliability the subjective determination that the seller was qualified to make recommendations rings true.

If money is the proverbial object, yes, buy at the mass market retailers. If quality and other perks is important and affordable, consider the specialized retailer who may have models not available at the BIG box stores and that can offer advice, service, free add-ons to "sweeten the deal" etc.

In addition, if your BIG box mower needs repair, you may end up at the local specialized store anyway since that retailer may have a contract with the manufacturer to perform warranty work.

A possibility; you arrive with your semi-sub-par model that the repairer knows was purchased at a BIG box seller due to the model number and/or how that model is made/outfitted/etc. Then, our anonymous one wanders in with his mower purchased at that retailer. Who do you think may get their mower fixed first? Who may possibly obtain that wee bit extra service? Who may depart with a repaired machine clutching a freebie or two such as a bottle of oil?

Y'all are so lucky the shanty-bound one has the time to convey this valuable info and advice. Just hoping the plumber-type people can get it right THIS time and that they actually do arrive today.
 
"But, Coot!!!!! What kind of Toro did "Mr. X" buy?"

Well, thank you for asking. Your doing so is indicative of an obviously superior intellect. So different than the masses locally who are calling in to various governmental agencies and local broadcast media, alarmed at the appearance of a multitude of multi-legged insects that, according to the TV broadcast, is creating fear and loathing among the human herd….at least a portion of them. TV then shows the “fearsome fiendish creature,” a cute semi-little (when based upon a bug’s eye view of things) preying mantis. Sheesh, people. No wonder I shun contact with those ignorant primates as much as I do. Ever interact with a preying mantis? For a bug they seem kinda’ smart. Well, predators do tend to possess more cognitive ability then herbivores. As the sage stated; “How much brain power does it take to sneak up on a clump of grass?” Well said, sage, whoever thou wert. Is “wert” a word? If not, it should be and, if not, I hereby proclaim it to be.

Oh, the Toro. A SuperRecycler model number 20037.

hmgdLawn_and_GardenPower_ToolsMowersToroSuper_Recycler_Mower-resized200.jpg


“Pros
Proven drive train, cast aluminum rust-proof deck, superior mulcher

Cons
Could use adjustable extensions to handle.

The Bottom Line
The Toro Super Recycler is a solid performer and a must see candidate for those consumers in the market for a high quality rear drive mower.

For an excellent review scurry over to epinions dot com:

ePinions is within thine grasp

Eeeeeeek!!!!!!!! As seen on the Toro Web site:

"These lawn mowers are capable of amputating hands and feet"

Ain't she a beauty? Look at those lines. Poetry in motion. Ferrari surely borrowed from the design.
Toro_20037Thumb.jpg


Shucks, we need a closer look at what is more than just a machine but is akin to a fine surgical instrument that can lop off grass heads with the best of 'em:

Toro_20037.jpg


The clipping catcher is easily removed and reinstalled.

Blade Tip Speed 18,050 ft/min.

Bagger Capacity 2.5 Bushels

GTS® Engine Warranty 5-Year
Starts on one or two pulls for five years or we'll fix it free!

Performance Warranty 5-Year Full

Approx. Mower Weight 84 lbs

Fuel Capacity .5 gallon

Drive Speed--Variable 0-4 mph

Height of cut system features 5-position adjustability from 1" to 3".

Personal Pace Drive System, so very cool. A form of variable drive system. The further forward you push the handle the faster you go. Wheeeee!!!!!!!

Aluminum deck. No rust. Pretty darn thick so should last a lifetime. 6.5 hp Briggs & Stratton 4-cycle 5 year GTS (guarenteed to start in a maximum of 2 pulls of starter rope).
Old-tech engine but tried-and-true and parts will be available forever (or replacement engine) at a lower cost than those ferrin’ engines. Rear wheel drive maximizes traction. Two zerks on rear axle. How many of thee with thine wimpy mowers can boast of not one but, TWO zerks?

Is it any wonder that real men clamber aboard the Toro bandwagon? Imagine the awe you would receive as your neighbors look on, envious of your wonderful machine. Heck, you might even have the rich widow lady coming by, all dressed up with the intent to grab your eye, due to your simply having and using such a marvelous machine of grass top destruction.

Yes, kids, the Toro SuperRecycler 20037 is what "buyer X" obtained and what an obviously intelligent enlightened wonderful person he or she is.

As told by an Old Coot
OldCoot.gif


saythat.gif


Carry on.
 
Oh.... busy typing, feel free to convert "preying mantis" to "praying mantis," though both seem to be apt labels for that nifty keen critter.

Heck, we should take a peek at one!!!!

40669564_7ba1fb2811.jpg


Wow!!!!!!!!!!

Dinner

Mantis_hummer2.jpg


tombstone.gif
 
Quote:


jsharp,
Why is a Honda mower just "big box store junk"? I guess that the Dewalt cordless tools and the Weber gas BBQ's are junk also. Less expensive doesn't always equal junk.

You could go and buy the same things for more money(especially the appliances), but why?

You also can get very low price extended warranty coverage.
When my 2yr old Maytag Neptune front loader washing machine started leaking water through the front seal, I contacted Lowes and a Technician was out in 1 day. When it was determined that it would take more than 5 days to get the parts and fix it, Lowes brought me a new one. Try that at your local appliance retailer.




I think there's ample evidence both in this thread and across the web that tells us about current Honda power equipment and their customer service. It's not horrible, in fact it's "OK". But it's not as it was either in design or after sales support.

I can tell from experience working at a Honda dealer in the 80's that it wasn't always like this. Their products were absolutely first rate and the dealers that sold them had factory trained techs. It was required. We had the same techs that worked Honda motorcycles working on the lawn mowers we sold.

We're not talking about appliances here, we're talking about OPE. But since you made the comparison, I bought an Amana a few years back from a local dealer and he installed it and hauled off the old stuff as part of the purchase. Do the big box guys do that? Not to mention I couldn't buy the exact models I wanted at any of the BB stores.

obbop summed it up pretty well. The sales and support technique that works fine for a small hand tool or appliances isn't really the best for a complicated machine with many adjustments. Do you really think they're going to replace your $2000 + mower every time it needs a small repair or adjustment, just because they don't stock parts or know how to work on it? Good luck on that. They're going to send you to a real dealer who didn't sell the item and you're going to hope he's nice enough to get around to you in between working on the items he sold to his customers.

Additionally, the better equipment isn't available at all through the big box stores. For instance, try buying a 2500 series Cub Cadet or x500 Series John Deere at Home Depot or Lowes. Not happening. They sell the low ends of the lines and that's it.
 
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Low end lines? Maybe for a commercial gardner. For the average homeowner? Hardly!

I buy a lot of OPE from a local saw shop in Lodi. They carry mostly Stihl along with Honda, Ariens, and other brands. When I need a commercial duty piece of power equipment, I but it there. When I need homeowner grade stuff, I buy it elsewhere. If they EVER refused or delayed working on something that I bought elsewhere and they were a warranty dealer for said item, I would find another dealer and spend my money somewhere else. I don't "hope" for anything.

Lowes did take away my old washer and dryer, N/C. I also ordered the washer and dryer I wanted, and it was delivered in 3 days with N/C for delivery. So much for not getting the exact models I wanted. And they were not the "Low End" models.
 
Can't we all just get along?!? I don't think anyone here feels that everything Lowes and the rest of the bargain barns sell is junk. You just can't expect to get the same quality as a specialty shop. Personally, I've always told people set on buying the absolutely highest end stuff, i.e., a $4,000 John Deere Mower that I would buy three or four Murray riders instead. I'd use the first until it wore out and pull another one out of the shed to use for the next 10 or 12 years. You may have to convert it to run on sea water or whatever we're burning by that time, but what the heck! My biggest problem with high-end equipment is telling people that when they run it without oil, or smack the water shutoff cover and bend the shaft that I can't do anything to help.
 
You're 1/2 right yeehaw. I was commenting on what Honda had become with ample complaints in this thread and plenty more on the net.

You can get by with lower end stuff provided you have the time and patience. I used a 38" White rider to mow my place for 11 years. I could have bought another and done it another 10+ years but it's not just a reliability issue.

I looked at what I need to do and the time spent and bought something much better. I can now mow in less that 1/2 the time and do a lot of other things the White couldn't possibly have done. So it's not just a case of well, I could have bought 3 more of them...
 
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