An EV and a Slurpee

[Snagglefoot]

We can watch gasoline sales with time and see how effective E cars are in bringing this down. Right now consumption is recovering from 2020 and have reached 8.4 million bbls per day and are still climbing.

 

[UncleDave]

With coal consumption shrinking so fast Its stats are becoming less relevant.

With oil, the cost is largely subsidized by our countries enforcement of the petrodollar standard and the street price doesn't reflect the real cost of this, and ignores body count of armed conflict entirely.

Some say -" yes but we are not dependent on foreign oil anymore" - sort of without it on the market the cost of every other drop soars instantly so the global price is dependent on its flow. We couldn't afford our own if the rest stopped.

We are phasing out both sources for electricity production in favor of nat gas, which we have all of we need.

I see the powering of vehicles by electricity as move toward energy independence as much as any emission savings move, although I can find lots of credible articles that articulate EVs are cleaner than oil over X time, and some claiming cleaner than coal if one cares about that.
To me all that is tertiary to other benefits of the model.

 

[Kiwi_ME]

... The dashboard display with regard to "watt hours per mile" is NOT how much power is purchased. It ignores a stack of losses.

From my research you're normally purchasing DC power from a fast charger and from there the only losses not seen by the economy reading are that from battery charge and discharge cycling. That's about 96 to 98% efficient on my EV according to my measurements.

 

[Cujet]

From my research you're normally purchasing DC power from a fast charger and from there the only losses not seen by the economy reading are that from battery charge and discharge cycling. That's about 96 to 98% efficient on my EV according to my measurements.
View attachment 59900

The DC charger has it's own losses. They are non trivial.

Despite claims to the contrary, 59 to 61% of grid power makes it to the wheels. This does not include regenerative braking or downhill regenerative runs, something any hybrid can do.

 

[Cujet]

We can watch gasoline sales with time and see how effective E cars are in bringing this down. Right now consumption is recovering from 2020 and have reached 8.4 million bbls per day and are still climbing.

All while natural gas use is soaring....

 

[UncleDave]

All while natural gas use is soaring....

Sure, its displacing coal, and oil as base and peak load now.

 

[Kiwi_ME]

The DC charger has its own losses. They are non trivial.

94 or 95% efficient according to ABB specifications. I'll remember this the next time I worry about the costs of refining, transporting and dispensing gasoline after I simply pay for it at the pump.

 

[PandaBear]

The DC charger has it's own losses. They are non trivial.

Despite claims to the contrary, 59 to 61% of grid power makes it to the wheels. This does not include regenerative braking or downhill regenerative runs, something any hybrid can do.

What does "grid power makes it to wheels" mean anyways.

You can have the grid going to battery then from battery to inverter then to the motor and then to the wheel. You can also look at the gas engine and then tack on all the other loss like transmission and vehicle electronics and from refinery to gas station to the gas tank and add all of them, I bet they will not make it to 59-61%.

Having a 15% refinery to wheel on a 99 Corolla with 40mpg can still beat a 20% refinery to wheel on a 99 Expedition with 20mpg. This is why in the end $/mile, kwh/mile, mpg matters instead.

 

[OVERKILL]

Bottom line: A Tesla will travel 15-19 highway miles on 10 pounds of coal. Even less if they go 90.
A Nissan Altima will go 36 miles on one gallon on the highway, at 90.
Tell me again who pollutes more?

Aye, but one 20g pellet of natural uranium produces the same amount of electricity as 400kg (882lbs) of coal, so that Tesla can go 1,323-1,600 miles on one CANDU fuel pellet and has zero direct emissions.

It all comes down to what's generating the power.

 

[ryster]

Yeah most Wawas have them now too.

Wawa only has EV charging stations at 50 of their 920 stores. It will take them years to install charging stations at most of their stores.

I can't imagine spending an hour at a Wawa waiting for an EV to charge. Being there 5-10 minutes is enough as it is.

 

[Cujet]

What does "grid power makes it to wheels" mean anyways.

It's a way to quantify the efficiency losses at the user end. Put another way, 60% of the energy purchased (how much the electric meter spins/reads) vs. how much energy makes it to the wheels.

A Camry has an engine that is 40% efficient. With 15% losses to the wheels, for a total system efficiency of 34%. The prius is better, with a 41% thermal efficiency and 13% transmission losses, for a steady state highway efficiency of 36% (fuel to wheel).

It's just a comparison to help understand energy use.

In my opinion, Overkill has the right answer. Anything else really is not as environmentally friendly.