Amsoil users please advise

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: bigjl
You do realise Dougs statements are based partly on where he lives and works, Australia.

That's for Doug to clarify. He's lived and worked all over the world from what I remember, so his experience may not necessarily be limited to Australia.


+1 I'm sure he's talking from decades of experience, and not some tech manual.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: bigjl
You do realise Dougs statements are based partly on where he lives and works, Australia.

That's for Doug to clarify. He's lived and worked all over the world from what I remember, so his experience may not necessarily be limited to Australia.


+1 I'm sure he's talking from decades of experience, and not some tech manual.


Well, Amsoil just published a Dealer/Truckers story of ONE MILLION-TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND Miles and still going...after a rebuilt of a Detroit 60 Series engine. This Trucker is doing 100K oil changes with a Dual Remote Bypass System. Wonder if the Mobil 5w40 product can do this?......

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hello,
LargeCarManX2 - Yes, and what's more suitable photo evidence - liners, bearings - was published on here several years ago after one tear down inspection!

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hello,
LargeCarManX2 - Yes, and what's more suitable photo evidence - liners, bearings - was published on here several years ago after one tear down inspection!


Doug, this is the latest off Amsoil news. The owner operator states he changes the dual bypass and fullflow at 50K and oil analysis is determining the OCI of 100K. What is the longest OCI you have obtained? PS. the Magazine does not publish the UOA's, I believe they should to prove the point!

 

[bigjl]

And nobody has ever exaggerated something to assist in marketing?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
And nobody has ever exaggerated something to assist in marketing?



People in the auto industry exaggerate? Make up their own tests to make their products look good? No. How could that be? After all if its written, published, stated by a company rep, or on the Internet it must be true.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
LargeCarManX2 - The longest OCI was 132kkms (80k miles). The aim was to establish a practical OCI across the Fleet. This was done and it averaged around 90kkms.

Interim UOAs were always taken typically around 50-60kkms. The UOA taken at OC was used to consider the next OCI for that engine

The tear down inspection on one engine was undertaken by Detroit Diesel. The engine was "like new"clean inside. After the measure-up inspection the engine was largely re-assembled as-is with the exception of main/rod bearings and ring packs which were replaced. These did not NEED to be repl;aced but it was considered a worthwhile cost

I last had contact with that engine at 2.5mkms (about 1.5m miles) - it was still running well with the same oil consumption average of 1 ltr/1kkms

At one UOA taken at 116kkms (71k miles) the following numbers were noted:
Fe 150ppm (limit), Soot 3.6 (my limit), TBN 3 (D4379), TAN 3.6

My limits were always those as published by DD but I allowed a soot maximum of around 4% (DD allowed up to 3%) . The lubricant would tolerate much more than that - up to around 6%

My FF filters were SS mesh at around 36 micron IIRC. They were always clean at OCI and then followed an inspection clean as per the centrifuge

Every centrifuge was cleaned at each second OC - these had an average uptake rate of 0.0025g/km

It took a year or so to get the final standard maintenance programme in place. Ther were many UOAs and the likes on this path!!

It is regretable that this Thread has deteriorated the way it has

I believe that Amsoil's products are very good. Like many others however they need to be cost effective IMO

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Thank you for your candid response and excellent OCI as well as long engine life. If the price per gallon is less for Mobil ...and I believe it is, bravo on the cost per mile lube maintance schedule you created. Amsoil has tried to keep the cost down by allowing commercial accounts and trying to give a freight break, but its hard to keep up with a multi-billon dollar company that has endless resources.

LCM

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Thank you for your candid response and excellent OCI as well as long engine life. If the price per gallon is less for Mobil ...and I believe it is, bravo on the cost per mile lube maintance schedule you created. Amsoil has tried to keep the cost down by allowing commercial accounts and trying to give a freight break, but its hard to keep up with a multi-billon dollar company that has endless resources.

LCM



And in regards to Amsoil, if this trucker through oil analysis is getting 100K with filters changed half way through the OCI....Bravo....Bravo and most excellent and amazing OCI...

I am going to call it a draw!

 

[LexusAussie]

In Australia, at least for Retail customers, AMSoil is easily sourced and cost effective (around $60 per US gallon). I use 5w30 HDD exclusively in all my vehicles and have had great results. It is closer to a 5w40 in reality.

Delvac 1, on the other hand, is very difficult to source for Retail customers (in my experience) and costs around the same or more when a distributor has ordained to provide a price in 20 Litre quantities.

I do not doubt Doug's experience in any way but I suspect he has a secret source for Delvac in Oz. c'mon Doug - share!

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
LexusAussie - No secret source, just Commercial relationships and Commercial quantities!

And yes, Delvac 1 has never been easy to source other than from Distributors - even then delivery must be pre-arranged

Careful though, Pablo may be watching and ready to chide me again..........

 

[bigjl]

Don't get me wrong I really want to use Amsoil products but at £60 for five quarts from the UK distributer (performanceoilsltd) they can keep them, almost £300 for a bypass filter kit!
Delvac 10w40 HDEO is £87 for 20 litres!

Which makes Delvac a no brained for me, there are other oils that Delvac do that are more money. The 5w40 Delvac 1 is almost twice that price for example but still less than UK supplied Amsoil.

I am saving for a fly drive holiday in the US next year and I suspect that if I can get my hands on a bypass kit for my Taxi and some Amsoil oil and filters at preferred buyer price then I will jump at the chance.

And sorry I just don't believe these engine warranties such as those provided by Amsoil, they are available on Prolong products in the UK and the coverage has more holes than a cheese grater.

I have used Prolong a few times over the years and have also used a product called ZX1 I doubt they did much good but I have never had one of my engines go bang despite hard driving and huge mileages sometimes. Over 100k a year back in '99, when I was a courier.

Despite disagreements of opinion I will in all likelihood look Pablo up next year to buy some product there may even be a business opportunity for us both as I think Amsoil could sell a lot of product in the UK if the price was sensible. Preferred customer price plus 45% would pay for all import duties and shipping to the UK and allow a decent margin.

But a quart bought for $7 (preferred buyer) in the US is up for £15 in the UK, madness or rather greed on the part of the UK side.

 

[LexusAussie]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
LexusAussie - No secret source, just Commercial relationships and Commercial quantities!

And yes, Delvac 1 has never been easy to source other than from Distributors - even then delivery must be pre-arranged

Careful though, Pablo may be watching and ready to chide me again..........


Thanks Doug. Suspected as much. You do love your Delvac 1 though. It seems to be your "go to" oil if someone seeks a recommendation.

I can source Mobil TDT and Rotella T6 easily enough in Sydney but the cost is the same or more than AMSoil which I source from Adelaide.

In my case, I'm not looking for long OCI's. I'm looking for maximum protection and use the manufacturer's OCI'S or more frequently in reality. $$ are not a primary consideration. AMSoil products have been good to my vehicles across the board (Engine, trans, brakes etc).

The UOA's I have had have been fabulous. It's a quality product as I am sure that Delvac 1 is. We get too "anal" on this board sometimes.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
And yes, Delvac 1 has never been easy to source other than from Distributors - even then delivery must be pre-arranged


It's amazing how lucky we are in North America with respect to some of these products. The only products I've ever had difficulty obtaining from Imperial Oil were a discontinued XD-3, for obvious reasons, and Mobil Rarus in sensibly sized containers.

Originally Posted By: bigjl
And sorry I just don't believe these engine warranties such as those provided by Amsoil, they are available on Prolong products in the UK and the coverage has more holes than a cheese grater.


I understand your scepticism. However, when it comes to standing by their products, I'd trust Amsoil head and shoulders above many companies out there.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
LexusAussie - Well developing "Commercial" respect for Delvac 1 took a long pathway to tread. It started in the early 1960s in the Southern Alps on NZ. I had a unique opportunity to compare Delo, Castrol, Shell and Delvac in a high uitlisation Heavy Earthmoving environment

Later, in my oun engines I trialled a number of HDEO products under development - mineral, semi-synthetic and synthetic - before settleing on Delvac 1 - it was simply a "whole of life" economic consideration!

I became a late user (last 10 years) of M1 0W-40 after being involved with the introduction of GC 0W-30 in the 1990s

 

[skyship]

Spot on as changing to a 5/40 should reduce oil consumption and with a real high time engine the major brand oils that have lots of Calcium detergents and Zinc are the best idea.
I would not use a fully synthetic in a very high mileage engine until the sump and oil pump feed screen were cleaned and only then if the engine was not leaking oil past the major seals.
Changing oil to a good fully synthetic will not ruin any seals, BUT it can dissolve some of the varnish which might then start a seal leaking. It might be worth considering an HM oil if you have bad leaks that can't be fixed.

For truck UOA limits I regard 100 ppm of Fe and 2% soot (If measured) as more realistic. The min viscosity should not fall below 30 from 40 and for severe service use the TBN should not drop below a third of the VOA figure.
The advice from Blackstones is good, BUT they do seem to encourage extended OCI's rather too much sometimes, as their max figures seem a tad low.


Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
jim3029 - I have extensive experience with these engines in my own fleet

I would suggest that you consider using Delvac 1 5W-40 if the engine has had regular OCIs on a compliant lubricant

My average OCI was around 58k miles (80kkms) - all my trucks had Mann-Hummel centrifuge by-pass filters and oil consumption averaged 1 ltr/6000kms

The lubricant condemnation limit was eithe Fe (150ppm) or Soot (around 4%) - whichever came first