Amsoil Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil Vs. Stihl

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Originally Posted By: boraticus


I know I'm one of the participants here who have to control their desire to provide people with unbiased opinions, guidance and advice.

Gotta keep a lid on that kind of activity. Right?


Of course not, but you purposely derail threads. How helpful is that to BITOG?
 
Originally Posted By: Slick17601
This thread has gotten ridiculous, I wish the Mods would lock it.
Try that notify button. Or maybe cry.
A discussion that goes slightly off track is still a discussion. Rather than a lock perhaps don't open the thread. I have never seen a forum so full crybabies.
Boraticus makes some very good points. As do other posters and to be honest I didnt know the difference between the different 2 stroke oil spec's but now thanks to this thread I have learned something.
Did it get slightly derailed...sure....is it still informative,ABSOLUTELY.

I would like to thank all the posters in this thread. I learned something. And thanks Boraticus. I may not always agree with you however your posts are informative.
 
Thank you Clevy.

I know I'm not popular with the "designer oil" crowd because I challenge what I perceive as inaccuracies or flagrant product pitches.

There is far too much hysteria, fear mongering and unfounded claims that need to be exposed and/or proved/disproved.

I try to apply a bit of common sense from what I've learned through real life experiences. If I we can do something for a dime without any negative consequence, why spend ten bucks?

Many participants come here for help. If we can guide people to perfectly acceptable solutions without excessive cost, we've done them a good turn. That adds value to forums such as this.
 
boraticus - you use words like "extreme" and you say "There is far too much hysteria, fear mongering and unfounded claims that need to be exposed and/or proved/disproved."

All your claims - you post no evidence. You try to scare people away from reasonably priced synthetic oil.

Another poster in this very thread claims good things about Mobil 1 MX2t synthetic. Why didn't you jump on that?
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Thank you Clevy.

I know I'm not popular with the "designer oil" crowd because I challenge what I perceive as inaccuracies or flagrant product pitches.

There is far too much hysteria, fear mongering and unfounded claims that need to be exposed and/or proved/disproved.

I try to apply a bit of common sense from what I've learned through real life experiences. If I we can do something for a dime without any negative
consequence, why spend ten bucks?

Many participants come here for help. If we can guide people to perfectly acceptable solutions without excessive cost, we've done them a good turn. That adds value to forums such as this.


I would tend to agree. Why spend more than you have to to get the same end result. Once you consider cost vs reward is the added expense justifiable.
 
I have been running Saber professional for the past year in all my Stihl OPE and have found it to be no better or any worse than any other air cooled two stroke oil that I have run. I have always kept mix ratio the same at around 3oz to a gallon no matter what oil I have run. as far as value that is up to the user and cost vs benefit you have to decide.
 
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"Another poster in this very thread claims good things about Mobil 1 MX2t synthetic. Why didn't you jump on that?"

Must have missed it.

If it makes you feel better, I don't use it either.

The only machines I have with synthetic oil in them are my air compressors which are kept in unheated garages. I had only two choices non-detergent 30 or Mobil 1 5W30, had to resort to the synthetic. Otherwise, I wouldn't be using it in anything.

In most applications, synthetic oil is a product looking for a reason for it's use. There are very few applications where it serves it's purpose and earns it's high cost.

Advising people to buy and use synthetic oil for applications well suited for less expensive conventional oil is poor advice and deserves to be challenged.

You'd do well to recommend your product for situations for which it was designed rather than trying to persuade people to buy it just to keep sales up.

Amsoil is a fine product I'm sure. However, when someone is looking for oil advice, I take exception to people automatically suggesting an oil that costs three to five times more than a product that will do what the person needs and more.

I help people and fix their stuff for free. My reward is the gratitude I get for helping a person out and saving them unnecessary expense.

You offer your opinions. I offer mine. My opinions however, have no allegiance to any thing or product that will benefit me personally.

Let the participants chose which way they want to go.
 
My advice to you is answer the question asked by the original poster, which in this case you failed to do. You are free to express your opinions within the rules of this board but people might be a little more open minded if you actually answered their questions before you dispense your world view.

Funny thing is most all the two stroke equipment from saws to factory bikes to motorized bikes run on conventional oil I've rescued, seen dead, wouldn't start, etc were just gummy nasty ugly and when torn down had excess scoring and wear to boot - which always leaves me scratching my head as to where all that conventional oil ended up.

I never write that synthetic oil is the savior of all products - but the way you write makes it seem like I claim all kinds of ridiculous miracles. I know it doesn't. Heck when I ride my bike hard I mix synthetic oil with castor oil. That said I know synthetic oil does have a tendency to run cleaner (see post about Mobil 1 MX2t synthetic), allow more latitude in mix ratios, allow the blender to dial in the film strength, and protect to higher temperatures.

I make no sales on answering this guy's question. I have no idea who he buys the product from.
 
Pablo,
As I indicated, I use Saber in my 2 cycle engines and the results have been great. My Echo weed wacker is 11 years old with the original spark plug. This engine stays very clean, no exhaust soot. You guys have a great product in Saber.
 
"Funny thing is most all the two stroke equipment from saws to factory bikes to motorized bikes run on conventional oil I've rescued, seen dead, wouldn't start, etc were just gummy nasty ugly and when torn down had excess scoring and wear to boot - which always leaves me scratching my head as to where all that conventional oil ended up."

I'd be willing to venture that the above experience(s) you mention are contrary to most people's experiences. Particularly those with basic mechanical understanding and maintenance skills.

I've got lawnmowers from the 60s and 70s that have run on nothing but conventional oil. I've opened them up and they looked great. As a matter of fact, their compression was still close to factory spec.

Not saying what you've experienced can't happen. I'm saying that it's highly unlikely unless some form of abuse or mistreatment was involved.

Think of the millions upon millions of two cycle OPE engines out there working hard, living long, on nothing but conventional two cycle oil. As I've said previously, synthetic oil is a high priced product looking for work. Until it's price comes down, it will never be a mainstream lubricant for applications that do not provide the conditions to warrant three to five times the cost of excellent conventional two stroke oil.
 
It makes no sense when oil jugs say what ratio to run. That varies so much from engine to engine that for an oil to say the ratio is absurd.

With that being said, I would never run ANYTHING at 100:1.

My weed eater gets 50:1
Chainsaw gets 32:1
Motocross bike 32:1
Racing Snowmobile 32:1
Old 15hp Outboard 50:1

Usually run Klotz R-50 or Amsoil Dominator
 
Originally Posted By: atc250r
It makes no sense when oil jugs say what ratio to run. That varies so much from engine to engine that for an oil to say the ratio is absurd.

With that being said, I would never run ANYTHING at 100:1.

My weed eater gets 50:1
Chainsaw gets 32:1
Motocross bike 32:1
Racing Snowmobile 32:1
Old 15hp Outboard 50:1

Usually run Klotz R-50 or Amsoil Dominator


Running those ratios seems to diminish the need for a synthetic oil right? After all, the "selling" points for synthetic oil are their suggested 100:1 mix ratio and extreme conditions applications.

The only machine I'd use a synthetic 2T oil in on your list is the racing machine if it's been modified to produce considerably more power and will be seeing severe service.

I've got a couple vintage Yamaha RD air cooled two stroke motorcycles that have been slightly modified to make more power and they seem to be surviving quite nicely on Motomaster TC-3 which I can buy for as little as $13.00 for a five liter jug.

Here's a very healthy 1974 Yamaha RD350 with electronic programmable ignition, modified engine, expansion chambers making considerably more power than stock and the rev limiter set at 10,000. Never sees synthetic oil:

RD350a.jpg
 
Just my humble opinion on the Sabre 2 cycle oil and all of Amsoils previous versions of their 2 cycle oil: GREAT
Ive used the 100-1 ratio mix since 1976 in outboards, leaf blowers, ice augers, weed wackers and garden tillers. Ive run the engines at full throttle for projects and never had a plugged spark plug or engine problem. My 50hp Evinrude was full throttle for over an hour each way on trips in canada.
Some may say I was lucky but my experience has been just wonderful. I only have to have one can of mix gas in the garage, no guessing trying to remember which ratio for which machine etc. Ive NEVER had an engine failure and have passed down older machines to kids when I get a new one.
Some folks just cant get their heads around the fact that Amsoil 2 cycle can do its job just fine at 100-1. Ive seen the tech lab running 2 cycle engines at Amsoil when on a tour once, that engine was screaming and never had a breakdown.
Buy what you want, do your own math but for the common consumer, Amsoil's products do what they are advertised to do.
For those negative folks, if you have not personally used Amsoil, why should folks believe what you say?
If you have used dino mix oils with no problem, great for you.
If you dont have personal experience with Amsoil, why bother commenting?
Just my humble opinion about a good product.
 
Originally Posted By: Click
Just my humble opinion on the Sabre 2 cycle oil and all of Amsoils previous versions of their 2 cycle oil: GREAT
Ive used the 100-1 ratio mix since 1976 in outboards, leaf blowers, ice augers, weed wackers and garden tillers. Ive run the engines at full throttle for projects and never had a plugged spark plug or engine problem. My 50hp Evinrude was full throttle for over an hour each way on trips in canada.
Some may say I was lucky but my experience has been just wonderful. I only have to have one can of mix gas in the garage, no guessing trying to remember which ratio for which machine etc. Ive NEVER had an engine failure and have passed down older machines to kids when I get a new one.
Some folks just cant get their heads around the fact that Amsoil 2 cycle can do its job just fine at 100-1. Ive seen the tech lab running 2 cycle engines at Amsoil when on a tour once, that engine was screaming and never had a breakdown.
Buy what you want, do your own math but for the common consumer, Amsoil's products do what they are advertised to do.
For those negative folks, if you have not personally used Amsoil, why should folks believe what you say?
If you have used dino mix oils with no problem, great for you.
If you dont have personal experience with Amsoil, why bother commenting?
Just my humble opinion about a good product.


Said like a true Amsoil salesman.

Either that, or you've really taken a liking to the koolaid. Don't know many people to "tour" an oil production facility unless they're an employee or have some other form of personal gain.

I'll tell you what, you provide me with a supply of Amsoil for the same price I pay for my conventional oil and I'll test it for you and provide you with an unbiased report.

Otherwise, why would I be so inclined to pay three to five times the price for Amsoil when the oil I use has never failed me?

You can start by providing me with a five liter container of Amsoil Saber for $13.00.

You good with that?
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: Click
Just my humble opinion on the Sabre 2 cycle oil and all of Amsoils previous versions of their 2 cycle oil: GREAT
Ive used the 100-1 ratio mix since 1976 in outboards, leaf blowers, ice augers, weed wackers and garden tillers. Ive run the engines at full throttle for projects and never had a plugged spark plug or engine problem. My 50hp Evinrude was full throttle for over an hour each way on trips in canada.
Some may say I was lucky but my experience has been just wonderful. I only have to have one can of mix gas in the garage, no guessing trying to remember which ratio for which machine etc. Ive NEVER had an engine failure and have passed down older machines to kids when I get a new one.
Some folks just cant get their heads around the fact that Amsoil 2 cycle can do its job just fine at 100-1. Ive seen the tech lab running 2 cycle engines at Amsoil when on a tour once, that engine was screaming and never had a breakdown.
Buy what you want, do your own math but for the common consumer, Amsoil's products do what they are advertised to do.
For those negative folks, if you have not personally used Amsoil, why should folks believe what you say?
If you have used dino mix oils with no problem, great for you.
If you dont have personal experience with Amsoil, why bother commenting?
Just my humble opinion about a good product.


Said like a true Amsoil salesman.

Either that, or you've really taken a liking to the koolaid. Don't know many people to "tour" an oil production facility unless they're an employee or have some other form of personal gain.

I'll tell you what, you provide me with a supply of Amsoil for the same price I pay for my conventional oil and I'll test it for you and provide you with an unbiased report.

Otherwise, why would I be so inclined to pay three to five times the price for Amsoil when the oil I use has never failed me?

You can start by providing me with a five liter container of Amsoil Saber for $13.00.

You good with that?



YOU DONT HAVE TO RUN Amsoil YOU CAN RUN WHAT YO WANT TO RUN.
All you do is attack people for their findings on what they run but if it's not what you want to hear you cry and stomp like a four year old kid it really starts to get old.
 
"
YOU DONT HAVE TO RUN Amsoil YOU CAN RUN WHAT YO WANT TO RUN.
All you do is attack people for their findings on what they run but if it's not what you want to hear you cry and stomp like a four year old kid it really starts to get old."


You got it all wrong Dave.

People shouldn't swallow hook, line and sinker just because a slick advertisement or salesman says to do so.

I also agree that people should run whatever lubricant they want to run. However, I have a problem with people recommending unnecessarily expensive lubricants when an oil one third to one fifth the cost will do the same job just as well under 99% of most circumstances.

It's misleading to imply that a decent conventional oil will not meet the lubrication needs of the vast majority of engines. After all, it's been doing it for over 100 years and we don't suddenly see the streets clogged with dead and dying vehicles since the invention of synthetic oil have we?

When Joe public asks what oil to run in his lawnmower, there are a number of guys here who tell him to go out and spend $10.00 to $15.00 for brand X oil when in fact, his engine will likely outlast the machine it's on if he used $2.00 to $3.00 oil.

It also appears that those who object the most to my advice are people who have something to lose if people don't drop the big bucks.

Forums are most useful and beneficial when the advice provided serves participants effectively and economically. Wise participants will be best served if they learn to observe the difference between advertising and good advice.
 
Base on my experience with many hours of usage with the Shindaiwa 2 stroke engines(built top rated commercial), the key was proper maintenance after so many hours of usage for full efficiency. It makes a difference in the long run.

Personally it's NOT the years the equipment has been in use but the the HOUR usage.

As far as synthetic 2 cycle oil versus mineral, and semi synthetic oil the 2 stroke engine is not a clean engine. Things build up over so many hours of usage. If a high quality synthetic 2 cycle oil can be run cleaner over so many hours of usage versus a mineral or semi synthetic 2 cycle oil I think that would be the question. How much cleaner and is the cost justifiable for one's application. Hour usage would come into play.

A full efficient 2 stroke engine runs cleaner....that's a fact
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: Click
Just my humble opinion on the Sabre 2 cycle oil and all of Amsoils previous versions of their 2 cycle oil: GREAT
Ive used the 100-1 ratio mix since 1976 in outboards, leaf blowers, ice augers, weed wackers and garden tillers. Ive run the engines at full throttle for projects and never had a plugged spark plug or engine problem. My 50hp Evinrude was full throttle for over an hour each way on trips in canada.
Some may say I was lucky but my experience has been just wonderful. I only have to have one can of mix gas in the garage, no guessing trying to remember which ratio for which machine etc. Ive NEVER had an engine failure and have passed down older machines to kids when I get a new one.
Some folks just cant get their heads around the fact that Amsoil 2 cycle can do its job just fine at 100-1. Ive seen the tech lab running 2 cycle engines at Amsoil when on a tour once, that engine was screaming and never had a breakdown.
Buy what you want, do your own math but for the common consumer, Amsoil's products do what they are advertised to do.
For those negative folks, if you have not personally used Amsoil, why should folks believe what you say?
If you have used dino mix oils with no problem, great for you.
If you dont have personal experience with Amsoil, why bother commenting?
Just my humble opinion about a good product.


Said like a true Amsoil salesman.

Either that, or you've really taken a liking to the koolaid. Don't know many people to "tour" an oil production facility unless they're an employee or have some other form of personal gain.

I'll tell you what, you provide me with a supply of Amsoil for the same price I pay for my conventional oil and I'll test it for you and provide you with an unbiased report.

Otherwise, why would I be so inclined to pay three to five times the price for Amsoil when the oil I use has never failed me?

You can start by providing me with a five liter container of Amsoil Saber for $13.00.

You good with that?



Could you try just as an experiment not be a a-hole for once?

Look at what you just did with your reply. You didn't address the substance of what the guy posted, instead you accused him of either being an Amsoil salesman or a "kool-aid drinker". This is not the debating technique of a rational adult.

Both sides should try to find facts to support their positions, not opinion or invective.

I really don't have a side in this debate. I don't use any Amsoil products and never have.
 
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