Amsoil SS 0w-20 // 6371 miles // 2020 Honda Accord 2.0

TBN depletion is not a linear thing.

It's interesting that his last winter cycle with Amsoil the TBN was 3.9 for a slightly longer OCI. Something is going on with fuel dilution and/or engine not heat cycling. Maybe more short runs.

That said the oil did as he needed, lasted the winter.
 
For the record the miles on this OCI and on all of the prior with this car are 70-75 % highway miles. My commute for work is 80 miles total each day. I drive a fair amount at 26-27k a year. The only time I use the car for shorter trips is on the weekend and even then I don't make a habit of it. I am not sure if this could of affected the fuel content of the oil for this sample, but I didn't get engine temp to full operating temperature as I prefer to do. I've never experienced the oil rising on the dip stick and in fact it has been dead nutz stable for all of my OCI. I'm really on the fence about bumping the viscosity to 5w-30 oil, but either way I will continue to run OCI @ 5000 miles for life of the car.
 
Yeah, TBN is not liner. You'd be surprised how long an oil can keep a TBN>1.0.
 
For the record the miles on this OCI and on all of the prior with this car are 70-75 % highway miles. My commute for work is 80 miles total each day. I drive a fair amount at 26-27k a year. The only time I use the car for shorter trips is on the weekend and even then I don't make a habit of it. I am not sure if this could of affected the fuel content of the oil for this sample, but I didn't get engine temp to full operating temperature as I prefer to do. I've never experienced the oil rising on the dip stick and in fact it has been dead nutz stable for all of my OCI. I'm really on the fence about bumping the viscosity to 5w-30 oil, but either way I will continue to run OCI @ 5000 miles for life of the car.
So what was different this winter vs last?

More cold? Some change in driving? Maybe, just a guess maybe your engine not getting as hot or running more rich for some reason??
 
No, its not the driving pattern, its the Honda 2.0t engine design. Countless posts showing fuel dilution in those even for highway driving. No reason to use expensive oils, instead change oil more often.
 
The major difference was last winter we took a vacation road trip to Florida so at least 7-10 days were spent in a warm climate. And 2200 miles of that oil run were steady-state expressway driving. Although the flashpoint from last winter's oil sample came back 5 degrees lower @ 375 compared to 380 for this sample.
 
So, @Samurai1225 you’ve said you use Amsoil in the winters. Were all three of these UOA’s on Amsoil? the 2021 UOA was on a fairly young vehicle, at lower OCI, and later in the year. Was it Kirkland or other?

PURE speculation on my part, but: I suspect fuel dilution is higher than BStone says, as others have said. Aren’t these newer Honda’s known for FD? We have no idea how much of the viscosity drop is from FD vs regular shearing (Thanks @OVERKILL for drumming that distinction into my brain). More speculation on my part is that the Amsoil possibly held up better than “off-the-shelf” synthetics, and things might look worse with one of those, but I have no proof. I’m not used to the 20 grade of oil, but checked online, and your oil STAYED IN GRADE per the UOA. But that TBN does look suspiciously low for only 6400 mi, on Amsoil’s premium oil. Wonder what caused that?

I would dump BStone. Amsoil’s Oil Analyzers testing at least gives a more real FD number based on gas chromatography. And TBN. They also provide oxidation, nitration, and acid readings…which I wish we could discuss more.
 
So, @Samurai1225 you’ve said you use Amsoil in the winters. Were all three of these UOA’s on Amsoil? the 2021 UOA was on a fairly young vehicle, at lower OCI, and later in the year. Was it Kirkland or other?

PURE speculation on my part, but: I suspect fuel dilution is higher than BStone says, as others have said. Aren’t these newer Honda’s known for FD? We have no idea how much of the viscosity drop is from FD vs regular shearing (Thanks @OVERKILL for drumming that distinction into my brain). More speculation on my part is that the Amsoil possibly held up better than “off-the-shelf” synthetics, and things might look worse with one of those, but I have no proof. I’m not used to the 20 grade of oil, but checked online, and your oil STAYED IN GRADE per the UOA. But that TBN does look suspiciously low for only 6400 mi, on Amsoil’s premium oil. Wonder what caused that?

I would dump BStone. Amsoil’s Oil Analyzers testing at least gives a more real FD number based on gas chromatography. And TBN. They also provide oxidation, nitration, and acid readings…which I wish we could discuss more.
yes the 380F flashpoint points to fuel not being "trace" like the report says.
 
So, @Samurai1225 you’ve said you use Amsoil in the winters. Were all three of these UOA’s on Amsoil? the 2021 UOA was on a fairly young vehicle, at lower OCI, and later in the year. Was it Kirkland or other?

PURE speculation on my part, but: I suspect fuel dilution is higher than BStone says, as others have said. Aren’t these newer Honda’s known for FD? We have no idea how much of the viscosity drop is from FD vs regular shearing (Thanks @OVERKILL for drumming that distinction into my brain). More speculation on my part is that the Amsoil possibly held up better than “off-the-shelf” synthetics, and things might look worse with one of those, but I have no proof. I’m not used to the 20 grade of oil, but checked online, and your oil STAYED IN GRADE per the UOA. But that TBN does look suspiciously low for only 6400 mi, on Amsoil’s premium oil. Wonder what caused that?

I would dump BStone. Amsoil’s Oil Analyzers testing at least gives a more real FD number based on gas chromatography. And TBN. They also provide oxidation, nitration, and acid readings…which I wish we could discuss more.
The first report was PUP. (flashpoint was fine with no mention of fuel) The second 2 were Amsoil SS. I have not yet sampled Kirkland. I may sample this OCI with Kirkland in the sump and see where the flashpoint/fuel lands. I may consider Oil Analyzers depending on where this goes.
 
The first report was PUP. (flashpoint was fine with no mention of fuel) The second 2 were Amsoil SS. I have not yet sampled Kirkland. I may sample this OCI with Kirkland in the sump and see where the flashpoint/fuel lands. I may consider Oil Analyzers depending on where this goes.
You may wish to try Kirkland Synthetic and cut the OCI in half. It could save you money and be better for the engine.
Fuel dilution is pollution in the oil (and is exacerbated by longer OCI) which no oil (expensive or otherwise) can do much with.
Also you may wish to go up a viscosity grade so that when the fuel dilution does occur, the thinning of the oil will still leave you with sufficient HTHS for optimal engine protection.
 
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The first report was PUP. (flashpoint was fine with no mention of fuel) The second 2 were Amsoil SS. I have not yet sampled Kirkland. I may sample this OCI with Kirkland in the sump and see where the flashpoint/fuel lands. I may consider Oil Analyzers depending on where this goes.
All three of those samples have fuel in them, the 2nd one in (middle one) has the most.
 
You may wish to try Kirkland Synthetic and cut the OCI in half. It could save you money and be better for the engine.
Fuel dilution is pollution in the oil (and is exacerbated by longer OCI) which no oil (expensive or otherwise) can do much with.
Also you may wish to go up a viscosity grade so that when the fuel dilution does occur, the thinning of the oil will still leave you with sufficient HTHS for optimal engine protection.
Sorry if I try to make this all about fuel dilution, but fuel in the oil is “contamination,” or as you call it “pollution.” From there we can go in at least 2 directions: 1) some magical mythical oil which might withstand the contamination better than “regular” oil, or 2) the sooner we change the oil, the less contamination there will be. But I have some UOA data which skews my preference toward #1.

See attached: note, the 2nd OCI (PUP 5w30 SN) after a mere 900 or so miles, was pretty contaminated, and had dropped out of grade (Pennzoil starts out at the thin end of 30 weight, so doesn’t take much to slip below the boundary with 20 weight The 3rd oil (11/2019) was a “foo-foo“ oil (Valvoline Premium Blue Restore at $75/gal), and you can see it held up much better at over 10x the mileage. By the way, the 1st OCI was PP, which was already GTL (like the PUP), but might have been SN+. Yes, there may have been some “driving style differences,” but no idling, not an abundance of super short trips (mostly 20-25 mi “commutes,” some ~10 mi), though the 1st & 3rd included a cross-country trip or 2…with daily driving once at my destination.

my points are:
1) for OCI #2 (05/2019), at, 900 miles, the fuel was already high. so how short an interval do you need if short intervals are your “solution?” I changed it out that soon because I “enlisted“ help from Terry Dyson. OCI #1 (11/2018) was my very first UOA on this vehicle, and yes, I freaked out, because of the fuel and the lead (source of lead still unknown). I was hoping for 1/2 the wear numbers, and of course, no lead or fuel.
2) the VIPR was a “cleaning oil,” perhaps akin today’s HPL, and I think it handled itself better than the Pennzoils. So maybe uber-premium oils might make a difference??? FYI, per Terry, we had sampled that VIPR at 4,400 miles, and it was already contaminated with 3.1% fuel. At 9,631 miles, I resampled, to both Terry and OA. Terry’s analysis was a partial analysis, which tested fuel and a few other things, but not viscosity or wearmetals. It was cheaper to get that info from OA, and I wanted the comparison. Unfortunately, OA reported 2.6% fuel whereas Terry reported 5.3%. OA retested, and revised fuel downward to 1.5 (🤔).
***by the way, I have other Dyson UOA’s showing the VIPR holding up reasonably well. And I have an early-22 UOA of QSFS from OA, before refilling with the last of my VIPR. The QSFS at only 2680 miles, showed 3.7% fuel, and had lost KV100 viscosity from 11.3(?) to 9.3. The most recent UOA, on that VIPR, showed 3.0% fuel, and the viscosity was still at 10.8 (down from virgin 11.3)

so, yeah, I think foo-foo oils help.
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