Virgin Sn is 1-3, maybe 4 but still not so worried about 6ppm, when Cu is 5. Could easily be some brass somewhere. And all other wear metals are very low.
Amsoil SS 0W-16 5k mi; Rav4
- Thread starter BigBlockSteve
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I don't care what sells you on oil. In general though, what does your manual say? Start there...
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Well since you were so sold out I thought maybe I should be too. It was a general recommendation you made, so I wasn’t sure if it applied to everyone.I don't care what sells you on oil. In general though, what does your manual say? Start there...
It was a confirmation of great results of this UOA. What about this report was bad? Isn't a UOA a tool to see how a grade may be performing in an engine to see when the oil is done for? Or is it not about the engine or oil anymore in a UOA? I think you made a point to be sarcastic using my handle and taking it out of context in order to make yourself feel smart?
I don't think kschachn is an Amsoil hater, but sometimes, it is the brand - and I mean that BOTH ways.
General Note: People love on certain brands here, and will rave on lots of just OK UOAs (IOW It WAS the oil), other brands it really doesn't matter what the UOA shows, it wasn't the oil!
Heavens you think way too much about yourself. My remark about the UOA and “fantastic” conclusions was just that - a $30 spectrographic analysis for one specific engine operated under unique operating conditions is not generally applicable. If you read any of my other posts you’ll know that I often point this out, including the fact that you cannot in any way gauge relative oil performance based on this type of analysis.
Untrained and frankly uneducated posters here quite often draw sweeping and unwarranted conclusions from a cheap UOA, including the conclusion that a single analysis would “sell” a grade to someone.
I most definitely am not. I think they (you) have excellent products and I purchse several from my local farm store where they carry them.
But I also do not ascribe excessive credence to a cheap spectrographic analysis that is greatly influenced by multiple variables besides the brand. Amsoil themselves do not do this either.
There is truth to this. We're tribal creatures of habit. Once someone starts using their favorite brand of the month, you're likely to support that brand regardless....a lot of "yea but...."
I use Amsoil SS currently and really respect Amsoil as a blender, however, I will be 100% honest in saying I don't like many of the dealers I have met. Even on FB groups the Amsoil guys are often the most vocally obnoxious. But I still us their oil and overlook that.
I never have liked Valvoline. Still think they're average, but I have defended their R&P product despite not liking the brand overall. If it works it works. Gotta stay as objective as possible.
I am agreeing with you. I am just calling for the impossible. A more fair metering of praise. Maybe when he!! starts to get a little nippy.
Everything I've seen over the years is SS is a great Amsoil oil product. My comment was a long the lines of if I were the OP & saw this UOA's great results it would confirm more evidence that nothing catastrophic is happening. You've seen plenty of bias I'm positive of that & I don't think it's the oil as it is the dealers as @buster eluded to along w/brand bias that is very real as you well know. Not saying you are one of those b/c you're not & way above many of them just by your participation on the forum for so long. We need folks such as yourself to remind folks that there are good products that are built to be used for many miles.
Just to be clear I spoke of grade not brand as you can see in my original reply. Thanks
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You seemed very intrigued by VME - even mentioning the unique smell (base stocks?) so take it you ran some?
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I'm actually planning this. I replaced the 0W-16 with Amsoil's SS 5W-30 just in case the 0W-16 caused more than 5ppm iron wear. I'll post that result in another 5k miles. I'm hoping I'll see a little less wear with the 30 grade, but the UOA has shown me even the thin oils can do well, I'm still going to be stubborn in my belief of no more than 5k on oil.
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When it's time for my next oil change, I'll buy an extra quart for a VOA alongside it.
don't Group IV oils with esters show higher than "normal" oxidation values?
An uncontrolled $30 spectrographic analysis isn’t adequate to determine comparative wear between oils. Way too many variables in everyday driving to ascribe an observation to one isolated variable such as the oil. The test for wear comparison is complicated and expensive.
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I imagine there could be a direct comparison, my wife's RAV4 is used for what the average person does, taking kids to school, grocery shopping, to/from work. The only time it sees the pedal go more than halfway is when I'm the one driving and merging or passing on the highway.
I don't disagree with your post, but I feel that given the vehicle's consistent use regarding miles/engine speed, there's a valid comparison.
You could also meet somewhere in the middle and go with their 0w20.
To demonstrate wear protection, they intentionally used their 0w20 SS in the Industry Standard IVA wear test.
Well you can if you wish but there's really nothing to substantiate that. A spectrographic analysis such as this is influenced by a lot of things. In fact, Blackstone themselves have stated that there is no statistically significant difference in wear between any oil they have tested. Which makes sense since this is not the proper test for comparative wear.
Even if you imagine it is a proper test, how much variability is significant? 1 ppm? 5 ppm? 10 ppm? What is the repeatability and reproducibility of the ASTM test? It is published as part of the test, but I no longer have access to all the ASTM tests so I do not know the values for this particular procedure. Does Blackstone follow the lengthy calibration test for their ICP machine to the exact letter of the law so that the ASTM reproducibility and repeatability values are accurate?
Isolating variables and determining statistically significant results is difficult and often misunderstood. You can have mountains of data (or just a little) and it can look great but be meaningless. The ASTM tests for determining comparative wear between motor oils such as D6984 or D6709 don't use a cheap UOA as the basis of comparison. I think there is a lot of imagination about what that spectrographic analysis shows.
They reference the Sequence IVA tests, I wonder why they didn't just use Blackstone analyses?
Its really important formulations are tested in engines to fully vet the chemistry. Simple bench tests and UOAs are not enough. There are instances of engines failing with UOA's showing low wear (due to particle size). The lead Valvoline engineer mentioned that in LSJ's video that you'll often find things in the field that were never noticeable through bench testing.
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