Amsoil Signature okay for 15k hard use?

[Mach1Owner]

Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: Flareside302
Originally Posted By: steve20
^^^ Pablo read the statement you posted---it says absolutely nothing of value


I would stay with the 5K OCI using the green bottle or the yellow bottle. Lots of stuff happens furthur on down the road like, Oh I don't know, maybe the engine eating its catalytic converter, maybe the hardening wasn't done right on the cams, maybe not enough drain holes in the piston land, and only shows up after 40K and they decide to extend the warranty to folks who have proved they serviced vehicle accordingly. Where will you be with an extended OCI in this situation?




They can't pick and choose who they extend warranties for.

and as I posted above he link to Amsoil about new car Warranties. that clearly people are to lazy to go read, and Pablo re-iterated they can't cancel warranty unless it was the oils fault. which amsoil in that case would cover it if it was an oil problem of they're product.


Oh yes they can. You guys are dreaming if you think they can't deny warranty based on failure to follow recommended oil service intervals. Then you can hire an attorney for $5-10k and fight it. Meanwhile Amsoil will tell you they will only cover it if their oil was at fault which they will say you must prove it wasn't.


Actually it's on the DEALER to prove that not following the recommendation is the cause of the problem. If say a piston burns up, they have to prove it was the oil and not the the piston, or some other factor that caused it.

 

[Shannow]

Of course if your owners manual says
"only use oil with the starburst logo", and
"change in accordance with the service schedule"

YOU are going to have to do a lot of proving. You have already operated the machinery outside the manufacturer's recomendations...possibly with an oil company who declares certain clearly written lubricant specifications as "arbitrary" in their recommendations.

 

[TrevorS]

If your oil met manufacturer requirements when new and then tested as still being within those requirements when engine damage occurred, how technically speaking could the oil be blamed by the manufacturer?

 

[fdcg27]

This is what I was trying to get across in my post.
An outright mechanical failure is one thing, but stuck rings or sludge are another.
If the manufacturer recommends an oil licensed to a ceratin spec changed at a certain interval and the owner choses to ignore both the spec and the drain interval, then it won't be the manufacturer's problem when the engine has stuck rings, sludge or both.
The manufacturer may not be able to tell you what brand of oil you must use to maintain warranty coverage but they can specify a grade and recognized specification level.
I doubt that anyone could come to a hapless owner's rescue when something bad happens and the owner had used oil not licensed to the specified approvals and not of the recommended grade.
I doubt that any representative from any boutique blender could swoop in and force warranty coverage.
The manufacturers and importers can afford better lawyers than any boutique blender.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Brian123
There have been quite a few issues that have come up from using Amsoil for extended drains during the warranty period of new vehicles.


Really? Please give some examples.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
This is what I was trying to get across in my post.
An outright mechanical failure is one thing, but stuck rings or sludge are another.
If the manufacturer recommends an oil licensed to a ceratin spec changed at a certain interval and the owner choses to ignore both the spec and the drain interval, then it won't be the manufacturer's problem when the engine has stuck rings, sludge or both.
The manufacturer may not be able to tell you what brand of oil you must use to maintain warranty coverage but they can specify a grade and recognized specification level.
I doubt that anyone could come to a hapless owner's rescue when something bad happens and the owner had used oil not licensed to the specified approvals and not of the recommended grade.
I doubt that any representative from any boutique blender could swoop in and force warranty coverage.
The manufacturers and importers can afford better lawyers than any boutique blender.

Guess who sits waiting w/o the use of their car while things get sorted out if something like you mentioned happens? It won't be the service writer, tech, or owner of the dealership, I can guarantee that. Most dealerships don't scare that easily either when you start mentioning law, Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act, or anything else for that matter. In most cases I'd venture to say you'd need an attorney to get to that point, and they don't work for free. Follow the OM while under warranty, do as you please when the warranty is over.

 

[fdcg27]

For that matter, unless you want to do it as a hobby, as many of us do, why not just use what's recommended and change it as recommended?
The manufacturers know far more about what works and for how long than we ever will.
Why not benefit from their experience and testing instead of trying to re-invent the wheel?
You surely won't save any money by doing it differently.
I write this while I use grades not recommended in the OMs in three out of four cars in my sig.
Of course, all of these cars are out of warranty.

 

[Pablo]

The main reason for extending OCI's is the time factor, but some fleets and people do save some real money with controlled, thought out extended OCI's.

Some people just don't have the time to DIY or even DIFY.

You guys are giving some great reasons why extended OCI's are not to be taken lightly, and something you don't just do on a whim. Certainly regular maintenance must be performed and simple things like checking the oil must always be done.

 

[fdcg27]

I understand what you're saying, Pablo.
I've posted in the past that if I ever ended up with a really long commute for any reason, I'd be all over SSO. I already do used oil analysis just for the enetertainment value anyway.
For somebody not willing to make either a hobby or a study of it, though, the oils and drain intervals recommended in the OM are probably the best bet.
When and if I end up with a really long commute, I'll order some SSO from you.
You're right in that the time factor involved in an oil change would matter for anyone racking up big miles, so reducing the frequency of those changes would be desirable.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: Flareside302
HELLOOOO!!! people Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act


That nice, while it is the law, getting resolution from it does require the consumer to bear the brunt of enforcing it. There is not a team of FTC lawyers who are going to swoop into a dealership and start arresting service advisers or threaten them with civil fines.

The reality is that the consumer still has to hire an attorney and bring it up through Federal civil courts and prove the case. That is why dealership service departments are not going to be shaking in their boots when any Joe Snuffy starts throwing around the M-M Warranty Act language.

It is like anything in life, it depends on who has the deepest pockets to bring justice and corporate America has a bevy of lawyers on retainer to fight the average Joe and bleed them out financially before having to admit fault. This is where Class Action status sometime is the only way to bring resolve to warranty issues.

 

[dlundblad]

Whenever I read about amsoil in a new car covered under warranty, I am reminded of the Cadillac Escalade (I think?) that had an engine failure because of it. GM engineers came to the dealer for inspection and amsoil wouldn't man up to their products failure.

Me personally, I wouldn't run ANY oil in an engine for extended intervals while it was breaking in.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
For that matter, unless you want to do it as a hobby, as many of us do, why not just use what's recommended and change it as recommended?
The manufacturers know far more about what works and for how long than we ever will.
Why not benefit from their experience and testing instead of trying to re-invent the wheel?
You surely won't save any money by doing it differently.
I write this while I use grades not recommended in the OMs in three out of four cars in my sig.
Of course, all of these cars are out of warranty.


This is a good discussion. I have a question for anyone who can accurately answer it, before I ask the question I want to be perfectly clear it can go for any oil company that states their oil can go 1 year or x amount of miles which ever comes first, blah, blah, blah.......Just to keep it simple the use is not severe service. The oil is synthetic, the proper grade, and a top of the line filter is used. Here goes: The owners manual states change the oil every 6 months or 7,500 miles, which ever comes first. The oil label says change the oil once a year or every 15,000 miles. The vehicle has a 10 year 100K warranty. During the 8th year of the warranty and under the 100K mile mark it develops tick and oil consumption is up from using one qt. during the 1 year OCI to a qt. every 500 miles. The dealer takes it in under warranty and asks for proof of oil change history. The owner shows he changes the oil once a year which was every 11,000-12,000 miles, and shows that the oil states it can last 1 year or 15,000 miles. As already mentioned it is not a severe service vehicle. It is determined the engine is sludged up, and damaged as a result, it will be a very costly repair. Once again this is a hypothetical question, please don't say it can't happen, or any good synthetic oil should be able to handle it, etc. please answer the questions. I'd like to know who is going to foot the bill for repairs if the dealer says the oil should have been changed every 7,500 miles according to the OM? How many people honestly believe this is a slam dunk easy win for the car owner w/o hassles, a long wait, and the aid of an attorney?

 

[TrevorS]

Don't Mobil say to follow manufacturer oci while under warranty, otherwise their mileage guarantee covers you outside of manufacturer warranty period?

 

[virginoil]

From my observations where OEMs have extended drain intervals for engines the oil sump capacity has always been increased.

Some oil manufacturers claim extended drain intervals by using a particular oil in the brand, I would be reluctant to do that and just stick to the standard oil regime recommended by the OEM.

If you elect to extend the drain interval then an oil analysis is required for at least the first 3 drains intervals to establish a baseline and trend for your driving conditions and assessment of the performance of the oil.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: virginoil


If you elect to extend the drain interval then an oil analysis is required for at least the first 3 drains intervals to establish a baseline and trend for your driving conditions and assessment of the performance of the oil.


Good advise.

 

[Brian123]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Don't Mobil say to follow manufacturer oci while under warranty, otherwise their mileage guarantee covers you outside of manufacturer warranty period?


Great question TrevorS. There was no mention of oil names or brands, also no mention of while under warranty. You spelled that out pretty good. In this hypothetical case the oil company said there oil was good for 1 year or 15,000 miles, no mention of anything else. I'd say the owner is going to learn an expensive lesson, or get some schooling on the legal system and then learn an expensive lesson.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Brian123


Great question TrevorS. There was no mention of oil names or brands, also no mention of while under warranty. You spelled that out pretty good. In this hypothetical case the oil company said there oil was good for 1 year or 15,000 miles, no mention of anything else. I'd say the owner is going to learn an expensive lesson, or get some schooling on the legal system and then learn an expensive lesson.


I stayed clear of brand names in my hypothetical questions for a reason. The OM said stated 6 months or 7,500 miles in my post. The oil said 1 year or 15K miles, no mention of following the OM while under warranty. Maybe that clears it up a bit.

 

[BertieBlue]

Originally Posted By: virginoil

From my observations where OEMs have extended drain intervals for engines the oil sump capacity has always been increased.



I wonder how much discussion regarding extended oil changes is ignorant of that observation?

My old Mazda took 4L (12 month OCI)
MY New BMW takes 5.1L (24 month OCI)



hmmm...

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: BertieBlue
I wonder how much discussion regarding extended oil changes is ignorant of that observation?

My old Mazda took 4L (12 month OCI)
MY New BMW takes 5.1L (24 month OCI)



hmmm...


Your Beemer's engine is probably twice as large as the Mazda.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: Zaedock

Your Beemer's engine is probably twice as large as the Mazda.


His oil requirement specifications are also probably way different than the Mazda. Not a good analogy to draw comparisons for sum capacity versus extended OCI.