Amsoil Severe Gear 75W90 vs Mobil Delvac 75W90?

[dnewton3]

I do see your point now that you've expounded on it.

However, I still take exception ...
How is Amsoil "better product" in this application? Where's the testing data to show that it outperforms Mobil 1? Or, for that matter, a slew of the other lubes on the QPL ? You say there's a "consensus", but I disagree. (There's rarely ever a consensus on BITOG ...)

I agree with you in that a "standard" should be set. In this case, it's the SAEs J2360 protocol for gear lube performance testing. So as long as a lube is picked from that list, then COST can be the deciding factor. There are some really expensive lubes on that list, but there are also some really good deals on that list as well.

No where is Amsoil on that list. However they may be using one of the qualified packages from Afton, Lubrizol or another source; we don't know. And, though Mobil is on the list as a brand, it's their heavy-duty lube products which are qualified (both conventional and synthetics); the "normal" Mobil 1 gear oil is NOT on the approved list. The Mobil Devlac 1 is on the list; at least that's one of the choices he's considering.

One of the easiest to attain at a reasonable price is the Valvoline Synpower products. Pretty much can find them anywhere and for less money than Mobil or Amsoil. I'm not saying that Amsoil and Mobil are not worthy of considering; they certainly are. But the normal Mobil 1 and the Amsoil aren't even on the QPL list, whereas many other products are.

If you agree that using a "standard" is the right first step, then why are you advocating for a product that isn't even on the SAE performance qualified product list ?????????????


Again, when two products are qualified to the same standard, and one costs less, why would you buy the more expensive one?

In this application, the Toyota diffs are very reliable. They could last hundreds of thousands of miles even on ST lubes, given a reasonable OCI plan. And that OCI plan hasn't even been discussed as part of the overall topic, and yet it plays into the conversation as well.

Further, usage comes into play here. Is the 4R going to be a road queen and rarely if ever go serious off roading? If the axles get submerged on a regular basis, it's by far more important to change the lubes after submersion, rather than worry about what is the "best" lube (in the bottle). Frequent off-roading with submersion would be FAR, FAR "better" served by drain/fill cycles frequently, even if you used ST. Clean inexpensive fluid is much more desirable than a contamination "premium" fluid.


In summary:
- the Amsoil is not on the QPL
- the Delvac 1 is on the list, but expensive
- Synpower is on the exact same approved list, but costs the least of the three

The data is there for everyone to see, as long as they take off their rose-colored biased glasses.

 

[ripcord]

Full and clean is better than premium fluid allowed to stay in service a long time. Change it every 30k with a rated oil and it will outlast the vehicle.

 

[hemioiler]

"Consensus" was more what I picked up digging around the internet, seems likes its widely recommended on truck forums. I do agree that its tricky to pin down and I could easily be wrong.

Being on a standards list is good, but not everything. Same idea as running the HPL oil I do in my truck, its the best oil I can find (IMHO) and it costs what it costs. I spend more on gas every week then the difference it costs to run HPL vs Valvoline or whatever else is on walmart shelves.

I'm not suggesting your approach is wrong, just for me on a new truck that I've committed to maintaining as best I can, I keep everything in perspective to the purchase price and intended time of ownership. As long as I'm sure that one product is better, that's what it gets.

 

[4WD]

Both are good enough. Use the cheaper one.

I check prices often and get Delvac 1 for $10/quart … or I wait …

 

[Pablo]

For the record Amsoil hasn't submitted or wanted to be on the QPL list. So stating they are not on the list is not really meaningful. The inference could be made that they failed. That would be an incorrect assumption.

If you want to buy a QPL product, by all means, do so.

 

[dnewton3]

For the record Amsoil hasn't submitted or wanted to be on the QPL list. So stating they are not on the list is not really meaningful. The inference could be made that they failed. That would be an incorrect assumption.

If you want to buy a QPL product, by all means, do so.

In no way do I think Amoil's SG lubes would not pass the tests. I didn't mean to imply they wouldn't. My apologies if it came off that way.
There are three reasons not to be on the list:
- a product wouldn't qualify (won't pass)
- a product would qualify (would pass), but doesn't want to spend the money to qualify
- a product isn't aware of the test qualification process (doubtful ... but technically possible)
I suspect Amsoil would pass, should they choose to submit to the test.

Still, for you to say it "is not really meaningful" isn't accurate, IMO. It may not matter to Amsoil, or you. But, it certainly does have meaning to someone who wants an assured J-2360 product; if Amsoil SG isn't on the list, and one were to want a QPL product, then the absence of SG means it may not be considered for purchasing.

Amsoil, as a brand, isn't on the list. That is truthful and does have meaning. It's just not the whole story. What I was saying is that Amsoil SG lubes may be using one of the Afton or Lubrizol qualified add-packs; I have no idea where they get their add-packs from. To the best of my understanding, Amsoil is a blender of lubes; they don't "make" anything. So, they spec base stocks and add-packs, purchase them, then blend them to their desired result. Is that not correct?

I just mentioned that they (Amsoil SGs) are not on the list, whereas many other cost-effective lubes are. So the OP can find a very good gear lube that would easily meet (surpass) his needs, from that list. The performance standards of J-2360 are very stringent; any lube that passes them would easily suffice for a Toyota 4R diff.

Though it's not true now, even ST lubes were inferred to be on the QPL. ST gear oil, at the time I was buying it, was just rebranded Mag1 GL5; Mag1 was on the list for many years. (In fact, I think ST gear oils still are just rebranded Mag1). However, Mag1 is no longer on the QPL; probably because they chose not to pay the qualification cost, as it didn't really materialize in additional market share. Mag1 lubes now state they "meet" the J-2360 standard, but they quit spending the money on the qualification process. That would mean it's no different from Amsoil in that regard; they choose not to be on the list.

 

[Yota94]

I do see your point now that you've expounded on it.

However, I still take exception ...
How is Amsoil "better product" in this application? Where's the testing data to show that it outperforms Mobil 1? Or, for that matter, a slew of the other lubes on the QPL ? You say there's a "consensus", but I disagree. (There's rarely ever a consensus on BITOG ...)

I agree with you in that a "standard" should be set. In this case, it's the SAEs J2360 protocol for gear lube performance testing. So as long as a lube is picked from that list, then COST can be the deciding factor. There are some really expensive lubes on that list, but there are also some really good deals on that list as well.

No where is Amsoil on that list. However they may be using one of the qualified packages from Afton, Lubrizol or another source; we don't know. And, though Mobil is on the list as a brand, it's their heavy-duty lube products which are qualified (both conventional and synthetics); the "normal" Mobil 1 gear oil is NOT on the approved list. The Mobil Devlac 1 is on the list; at least that's one of the choices he's considering.

One of the easiest to attain at a reasonable price is the Valvoline Synpower products. Pretty much can find them anywhere and for less money than Mobil or Amsoil. I'm not saying that Amsoil and Mobil are not worthy of considering; they certainly are. But the normal Mobil 1 and the Amsoil aren't even on the QPL list, whereas many other products are.

If you agree that using a "standard" is the right first step, then why are you advocating for a product that isn't even on the SAE performance qualified product list ?????????????


Again, when two products are qualified to the same standard, and one costs less, why would you buy the more expensive one?

In this application, the Toyota diffs are very reliable. They could last hundreds of thousands of miles even on ST lubes, given a reasonable OCI plan. And that OCI plan hasn't even been discussed as part of the overall topic, and yet it plays into the conversation as well.

Further, usage comes into play here. Is the 4R going to be a road queen and rarely if ever go serious off roading? If the axles get submerged on a regular basis, it's by far more important to change the lubes after submersion, rather than worry about what is the "best" lube (in the bottle). Frequent off-roading with submersion would be FAR, FAR "better" served by drain/fill cycles frequently, even if you used ST. Clean inexpensive fluid is much more desirable than a contamination "premium" fluid.


In summary:
- the Amsoil is not on the QPL
- the Delvac 1 is on the list, but expensive
- Synpower is on the exact same approved list, but costs the least of the three

The data is there for everyone to see, as long as they take off their rose-colored biased glasses.

Appreciate the feedback. I think I’m going to go with the Mobil Delvac diff fluid since your thought process is what I had in mind. This 4Runner will see off-road usage and a fair amount of water and deep mud. Going with a cheaper fluid but changing more often would be preferable for me since I would like the peace of mind of being able to change the front and rear diff fluid whenever I get back from a “questionable” off-road trip. I can stomach spending $60 for peace of mind with the Delvac fluid but $130 for Amsoil would be a waste in my opinion if I’m just going to change it again 10k miles later when I have another “questionable” off-road trip.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

I did an unscientific test of severe gear in my truck having to do with temperature. used 75w90 and the temps were on average 4 degrees higher than what temps were using valvoline syn.....

ran one for a year and the other for a year, took 24 measurements noted the date, ambient temp and so on........again, not very scientific, but is more than most would do.

At the end of the test, I did an analysis, but never did a VOA, so it didnt really matter....I am dumb.

The "oil in a bag" thing is worth it to me.......of course other have that now too.

 

[1000MPH]

I’ve been using Delvac since my first dif change at 40k. I use it in the transfer case too. I do get a slight groan when first rolling and temps are below 0°F but I can’t say where that comes from. Make a garden sprayer fluid transfer pump and changes are a breeze.

 

[wpod]

I would not use a syn oil if you are going to change it often due to water intrusion.. Ther will be little to no advantage running the syn.