Amsoil Saber 100:1 in new saw

[cruzzinlow]

recently purchased a Makita DCS510 18" 50cc chainsaw, basically a rebranded Dolmar PS510.. the makita manual has oil recommendations:
50:1 when using MAKITA high-performance two-stroke engine oil.
100:1 when using MAKITA HP 100 high-performance two- stroke engine oil.
40:1 when using other two-stroke engine oils.
i recently purchased some Amsoil Saber Professional 100:1, is it ok to run this oil at 100:1 since they recomend there makita 100:1 HP 100 or should i be using it at 50:1?
i did some searching and it seems pretty split between using 100:1 vs 50:1, any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[tig1]

Can't answer your question, but Amsoil Saber has worked well for me for 3 years now at 50:1 in my Echo weed wacker.

 

[Pablo]

Interesting to say the least. I would say 100:1 should be just fine. If it bugs you/or it's really hot weather 50:1 will work, but will be pretty oily.

75:1 or 80:1 and call it a day!

 

[MrMeeks]

A quality machine ( dolmar) will operate well for many years running a name brand petroleum oil.Pennzoil air cooled or multipurpose works very well for me. I do use sabre at 100:1 in a trimmer.The engine gets the extra fuel it wants with 100:1 and starts easily with very good power.

 

[OilNerd]

Originally Posted By: cruzzinlow
i did some searching and it seems pretty split between using 100:1 vs 50:1, any thoughts would be appreciated.


A lot of folks, like me, are somewhere in-between. I decided on 80:1 after spending a lot of time searching landscaping forums and settling on what a lot of the commercial users use.

 

[boraticus]

I run oil ratios at the manufacturer's recommendation. It's not just the cylinder that's being lubed with that minuscule amount of oil. The crank, connecting rod and wrist pin bearings are all relying on that oil. An air cooled chainsaw revving to 10000 plus rpm is a pretty demanding environment to be going thin on the oil. Be it synthetic or otherwise.

I don't use synthetic oils despite the claims of it's superiority. Any decent conventional two cycle oil mixed at manufacturer's specifications has worked well for me for many years. I've got two Jonsereds chainsaws over twenty six years old that have been used to cut wood professionally and for firewood. All they've seen for maintenance is chains, bars, sprockets, the odd spark plug and occasional cleaning. They both still fly through a 12 log with ease.

By the way, more oil in the mix will provide more power.

 

[Craig in Canada]

This is the first instance I've heard of the manufacturer recommending a 100:1 mixture in any circumstances.

Since the user's manual says 100:1 is OK with their 100:1 oil, I would run 100:1 comfortably with Amsoil Saber, also a 100:1 oil.

I've run Saber @50:1 for years in my Echo trimmer specing 50:1. I just recently went to ~75:1 just for kicks.

 

[Johnny]

boraticus and me are from the same old school when it comes to 2-cycle oils.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
boraticus and me are from the same old school when it comes to 2-cycle oils.

+1 Also 100:1 into a gallon is like 38.4 millilitres. Measuring mix with a syringe seems a bit silly. I'd aim for 75:1 or less if you insist on using the stuff just so you never end up doing 120:1 by accident.

 

[OilNerd]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
+1 Also 100:1 into a gallon is like 38.4 millilitres. Measuring mix with a syringe seems a bit silly. I'd aim for 75:1 or less if you insist on using the stuff just so you never end up doing 120:1 by accident.


For those of us on imperial measurements, 80:1 is easy. 4 oz. of oil for 2.5 gallons, or 8 oz. for 5 gallons.

 

[IndyIan]

2.5 gallons of mix for a 50cc chainsaw would last for alot of cutting. That's about 15 tanks of gas, which might cut 3 cords of wood? A whole heating seasons worth for me anyways.

I just mix 5L at a time now which is 125mL of oil for 40:1, so less mixed gas gets old and put into my cars.

 

[OilNerd]

No doubt.

I use one mix (80:1) for all my two-cycle equipment now. (Chain saw, Camping generator, weed trimmer, brush cutter, hedge-trimmer, and blower/vac)

 

[jimo]

Amsoil Saber Professional 100:1 is not ISO-L-EGD certified or JASO FD registered as might be reasonably inferred from the Amsoil literature and labeling. Some equipment manufacturers such as RedMax will deny a warranty claim if the oil used is not 50:1 ISO-L-EGD certified and JASO FD registered despite Amsoil's claim that Saber Professional meets the FD specification at 100:1.

The newer two cycle engines requiring ISO-L-EGD certified and JASO FD registered oil appear to be more susceptable to sticking rings and RedMax will deny a warranty claim if the oil used is not certified and registered.

Use Amsoil if you don't mind risking your warranty being denied.

 

[hi-miler]

I get on Arboristsite a lot and have read their discussion of this issue. One of the comments that I have yet to substantiate but believe it to be accurate is that Amsoil recommends 75 to 1 for professional use. Also, the mix ratio almost takes a back seat to making sure you have fresh mid level or even premium gas. Statements were made that the Ethanol in todays gas causes problems along with the ability of the oil mix being able to reduce the octane rating necessitates the higher octane fuel. My routine is to only mix one gallon of fresh mid level gas with 1.7oz (50ml) of Sabre, and a half ounce of gasoline stabilizer. I bought the beaker at Walmart in the Housewares section.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: hi-miler
Amsoil recommends 75 to 1 for professional use.


I haven't seen that. I dropped by the Amsoil site right now and some thing do seem different than my memory. The summary paragraph for ATP before you select says "as lean as" instead of just 100:1. However that's not found on the full page about ATP. It says it is recommended at 100:1 for normal use and that richer mixtures can be used if desired. It didn't have a statement indicating that "normal use" for the "Saber Professional" product was anything other than 100:1.

It also says "Saber Professional is recommended for pre-mix where ISO-L-EGD, JASO FD or API TC is specified" which is usual speak for it not actually being certified.

I personally use it at 50:1 and like it a lot better than anything else I've tried. I have used it at 75-80:1 and noticed some improvement in my trimmer responsiveness but not enough to bother exceeding 50:1.

 

[Cujet]

I post the same things over and over again. I was involved in 2 stroke oil testing many years ago. Much (but not all) of it still applies.

Synopsis: Highly loaded engines (Pro Kart 125cc engines) need large quantities of oil (more than 32 to 1).

Lightly loaded engines do fine on 50 to 1 (outboards, lawn eqpt)

All engines show more wear at 100 to 1, regardless of oil type.

Bottom line, 32 to 1 provides all the protection most users will ever need.

If you were ever to watch the oil migration in a 2 stroke, you would notice that oil and fuel don't stay mixed around the con rod big end. Providing a nearly 100% oil film to lubricate the bearings (at times).

This is why some engines often have residual oil in the bottom of the crankcase.

At 100 to 1, this does not happen and in high performance, high RPM engines, there are periods of high RPM operation where the bearings get hot due to lack of oil.

The EPA drives the absurd ratio's used today. Rest assured, they don't have your engines long life in mind.

There is a lot more to this. And, there are many who will say "my outboard lasted forever" with absurd ratio's. Remember, there are many powerhead failures today also. Many could have been prevented with sufficient oil.

 

[Johnny]

Cujet, the two of us are on the same page. I run 32:1 in every piece of equipment I have, no matter what oil I'm using.

 

[boraticus]

I'm also of the opinion that more oil is better . I mix my fuel to an average of around 35-40 to one for most of my engines except my outboards and vintage Yamahas. I run the outboards at around 75:1 (engine spec. is 100:1). My outboards live a pretty easy life. They are run in relatively cool water lakes and don't get flogged all day long. If I were pulling water skiers around, I'd probably go heavier on the oil but as is, they don't really need it.

The old Yamahas are oil injected and the pump moves sufficient oil to meet engine demands.

 

[Pablo]

Really I agree with this as well, in general.

Here are just some side chatter/observations/talking points from a down to earth Amsoil weasel:

After 4 years of just about every oil and every ratio and tons of chat with 1000's of users of cheap China bike engines (49cc-67cc), the best ratio is indeed 32:1. The most power, best wear, low smoke, good odor, a bit but not too filthy is Amsoil Dominator and castor oil at 32:1, with 25% of the oil mix being the castor oil. These engines run hot and hard with fat guys in hot places. Some yahoos go full Chinese and run SAE 30 engine oil and wonder why their plugs foul. Some guys (quite a few) swear by Opti 2 at 100:1. Amsoil recommends 50:1 with Saber for these engines. I actually don't think Saber is very good in these crude engines - it's almost like they aren't sophisticated enough....no reed valves, not properly ported, no power valves, nothing....if you run Saber at 32:1 they run OK, but oil everywhere I mean huge spooge.

OK I'll bring it up. Why not much chat about Opti 2 here on BITOG? MB crowd swears by the stuff. (Not many of them have tried Saber at 100:1) These guys say more power, cleaner, etc. One guy says he dropped down to 80:1 and lost power. I dunno. I tried a couple tanks and no different that Saber, IMHO. No smell that I noticed, but seemed like a real drop off in ring seal power. I was running my high compression head at the time.

I think 100:1 can work in the more sophisticated engines as long as they aren't too loaded or stress and the temperatures are not extreme. Amsoil never recommends 100:1 in racing or high load conditions. I think some people see all Amsoil 2 stroke oils as 100:1 oils and don't go deeper than that. I'm not sure this makes me sad or angry, but somehow it points to needing better marketing.

What I don't see is people adjust their fuel:air mix for fuelil mix. Sometimes it's not a huge change, but in some engines/applications it makes a large difference - sometimes it could make a difference enough to prevent seizure.

There are no miracle oils. Use what works. Read your spark plug, take the head off if it's not too nasty of a job.

Keep 2 strokes alive!

 

[BigBird57]

Amsoil recommends 100 to 1 for homeowner use and 80 to 1 for commercial use. We have Stihl trimmers and have used 80 to 1 for years. One unit dates back to 1998. We have not had to decarb any unit since we switched to Amsoil. Not a dealer , just a preferred customer.