I'm back. That guy SUCKS. What a complete IDIOT. Give me a name/#. I'll report his sorry a$$. Sorry. I'm out.
Amsoil lubes: worth it?
- Thread starter burntkat
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thanks Pablo, but not gonna happen. Not my way.
This guy used EVERY tactic in the MLM booklet on me- personal attacks disguised as questions, FUD-mongering, blatant misinformation ["even when I used the TP filter, my oil was still dark"-- I shot right back that _of_course_ it was, due to the ashless composition of modern additive pachages-- see, I learned somethin' here
], etc.... even trying to wave the flag by comparing people who use regular oils to insurgents in Iraq. Oh, I wiped the floor up with that bit of idiocy-- he didn't know that I know FAR more than he on that subject. Nevermind how.
A wise man..errr, Rabbit... once said it: "Whatta maroon!"
I've been very, VERY nice and patient with him throughout this whole scene-- through some 40-odd emails- having stated my reasoning for going with filters that are superior to Amsoils and just happen to be dirt cheap. He won't listen. We got to the point where any good salesman would have [figuratively] slid the pen and paper in front of me, looked me in the eye, and shut the heck up. He was too stupid to realize that the first person to talk, loses.
He lost. I was going to buy 2 or 3 cases of motor oil as well as greases, etc, in the coming months. Now I will buy *nothing* from Amsoil. It may be the best lube around, but when we get to the level of an Amsoil versus a Mobil 1, we're splitting an awfully fine hair.
Plus I can buy the Mobil 1 locally, and don't have to support the MLM horse****.
I'm sure there are some awfully fine folks here who sell Amsoil-- my comments above do not apply to them. I appreciate that they support the site, and Iappreciate those that I don't know are Amsoil reps due to their not toeing the Corporate Line. But I will not, under any circumstance, be using Amsoil products.
This guy used EVERY tactic in the MLM booklet on me- personal attacks disguised as questions, FUD-mongering, blatant misinformation ["even when I used the TP filter, my oil was still dark"-- I shot right back that _of_course_ it was, due to the ashless composition of modern additive pachages-- see, I learned somethin' here
A wise man..errr, Rabbit... once said it: "Whatta maroon!"
I've been very, VERY nice and patient with him throughout this whole scene-- through some 40-odd emails- having stated my reasoning for going with filters that are superior to Amsoils and just happen to be dirt cheap. He won't listen. We got to the point where any good salesman would have [figuratively] slid the pen and paper in front of me, looked me in the eye, and shut the heck up. He was too stupid to realize that the first person to talk, loses.
He lost. I was going to buy 2 or 3 cases of motor oil as well as greases, etc, in the coming months. Now I will buy *nothing* from Amsoil. It may be the best lube around, but when we get to the level of an Amsoil versus a Mobil 1, we're splitting an awfully fine hair.
Plus I can buy the Mobil 1 locally, and don't have to support the MLM horse****.
I'm sure there are some awfully fine folks here who sell Amsoil-- my comments above do not apply to them. I appreciate that they support the site, and Iappreciate those that I don't know are Amsoil reps due to their not toeing the Corporate Line. But I will not, under any circumstance, be using Amsoil products.
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- Jan 6, 2005
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I can look past the few sleezy Amsoil salespeople & recognize Amsoil for what it is; a very good synthetic oil. I plan to use Amsoil European Formula 5w40 once my supply of Mobil 1 0w40 is depleted.
Don't let the scumbags wear you down, burntkat.
p.s. The Amsoil salespeople on this site are real good people, IMHO.
Don't let the scumbags wear you down, burntkat.
p.s. The Amsoil salespeople on this site are real good people, IMHO.
Hi,
burntkat - back to your original question, you asked;
"OK-- so now we know the field we're on-- what is so great about Amsoil that I should chose it over Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntec? I *do not* buy their line about their $30 filter elements being such wonderful things-- should I dismiss Amsoil's lubes as being dramatically better than the lubes I'm using as well?"
The first priciple to consider is that NO oil of exactly the same specification will be/is likely to be dramatically different from another in overall performance in normal use!
Cost effectiveness depends on you doing your own cost/benefit analysis exercise
Mostly and unless you are prepared to go to the limits of the vehicle Manufacturer's recommended oil/filter change intervals, the use of an exotic oil of any Brand is probably not able to be justified on a cost/effectiveness basis
By all accounts Amsoil is a good product - just one of many! And at least the Amsoil Dealers on here try hard to keep a moderate and accurate line!
Doug
burntkat - back to your original question, you asked;
"OK-- so now we know the field we're on-- what is so great about Amsoil that I should chose it over Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntec? I *do not* buy their line about their $30 filter elements being such wonderful things-- should I dismiss Amsoil's lubes as being dramatically better than the lubes I'm using as well?"
The first priciple to consider is that NO oil of exactly the same specification will be/is likely to be dramatically different from another in overall performance in normal use!
Cost effectiveness depends on you doing your own cost/benefit analysis exercise
Mostly and unless you are prepared to go to the limits of the vehicle Manufacturer's recommended oil/filter change intervals, the use of an exotic oil of any Brand is probably not able to be justified on a cost/effectiveness basis
By all accounts Amsoil is a good product - just one of many! And at least the Amsoil Dealers on here try hard to keep a moderate and accurate line!
Doug
I quite agree about the people on this board. But I also am much more inclined to just go buy a bottle of Mobil 1 at the local parts store at this point.
Additionally, I intend to push the OCI far beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Remember, that was an era [1989] when 3000 miles was the de facto limit. I'll be running OA and EOCI to the limits.
Even Amsoil's own testing shows Mobil 1 to be pretty much neck-and-neck with them. Plus, I can get it pretty cheap, comparatively, at Walmart.
I still think Amsoil's harming their customer base potential by not getting API certification and not signing an exclusive distributorship agreement with a major retailer.
Hi,
burntkat - you said;
"I still think Amsoil's harming their customer base potential by not getting API certification and not signing an exclusive distributorship agreement with a major retailer."
Yes, I do too (can't comment about the retailer bit) but that is a Commercial decision taken way beyond those excellent Amsoil guys that try so hard on here (I enjoy their rumble from time to time)
I do think Manufacturer Approvals and official Listings will become an issue of increasing importance as more sophisticated engine technologies are released to us. It happened long ago in the diesel engine area with an enormous effect
At least Amsoil do have some Manufacturer Approvals and are Listed with some Manufacturer's too, they selectively have the API "bit" where it is needed for some volume sales
They probably don't rate ACEA too much as they are a US organisation as you know without too much of a Global perspective - sad that!!
I have much more respect for ACEA than API!
So, they can't grumble too much when we take them to task over their advertising/marketing terminologies - it is a Commercial decision and they must live with the consequences of that
Doug
burntkat - you said;
"I still think Amsoil's harming their customer base potential by not getting API certification and not signing an exclusive distributorship agreement with a major retailer."
Yes, I do too (can't comment about the retailer bit) but that is a Commercial decision taken way beyond those excellent Amsoil guys that try so hard on here (I enjoy their rumble from time to time)
I do think Manufacturer Approvals and official Listings will become an issue of increasing importance as more sophisticated engine technologies are released to us. It happened long ago in the diesel engine area with an enormous effect
At least Amsoil do have some Manufacturer Approvals and are Listed with some Manufacturer's too, they selectively have the API "bit" where it is needed for some volume sales
They probably don't rate ACEA too much as they are a US organisation as you know without too much of a Global perspective - sad that!!
I have much more respect for ACEA than API!
So, they can't grumble too much when we take them to task over their advertising/marketing terminologies - it is a Commercial decision and they must live with the consequences of that
Doug
Makes sense, Doug-
and I just want ro reiterate: NO problems whatsoever with anyone on the board.
Now if someone would just explain to me how it is that a restrictor valve in a dual bypass filtration kit, like the Amsoil dual unit, in parallel with the fullflow and unrestricted filter, can have any effect on the pressure relief valve in the oil pump, I'd be golden. I just don't see how it possibly can, as there's still an unrestricted "circuit" for oil to flow into the engine..
and I just want ro reiterate: NO problems whatsoever with anyone on the board.
Now if someone would just explain to me how it is that a restrictor valve in a dual bypass filtration kit, like the Amsoil dual unit, in parallel with the fullflow and unrestricted filter, can have any effect on the pressure relief valve in the oil pump, I'd be golden. I just don't see how it possibly can, as there's still an unrestricted "circuit" for oil to flow into the engine..
burntkat,
As for Mobil 1, you might opt for the Truck & SUV 5w-40 over the xW-30s. Mobil 1 xW-30 runs on the thin side of 30 weight (10.3 cST at 100C versus GC at 12.2 cST at 100C). The Jeep might push up the oil consumption if a w-30 is used.
Their Mobil 1 Truck and SUV is very similar to the Delvac 1 used in heavy diesels. A 40 weight seems to do well in Jeeps with either the straight 6 or V8 based on the oil analysis that I seen.
That being said the Amsoil 15w40 is a great bang for the $$ in their lineup.
As for Mobil 1, you might opt for the Truck & SUV 5w-40 over the xW-30s. Mobil 1 xW-30 runs on the thin side of 30 weight (10.3 cST at 100C versus GC at 12.2 cST at 100C). The Jeep might push up the oil consumption if a w-30 is used.
Their Mobil 1 Truck and SUV is very similar to the Delvac 1 used in heavy diesels. A 40 weight seems to do well in Jeeps with either the straight 6 or V8 based on the oil analysis that I seen.
That being said the Amsoil 15w40 is a great bang for the $$ in their lineup.
I would guess that Big Al has a leased compamy car.
I am confused a bit. This thread began as; was one synthetic oil brand better than another, namely Mobil 1 vs Amsoil vs Castrol Syntec? It seems to have progressively gone downhill from there and now has deteriorated to a slam of the MLM marketing method rather than an objective look at the question.
First of all, let me say I am not a dealer and thus do not have a dog in the fight. From your complaint it seems you are turned off by an overzealous Amsoil dealer. Instead you prefer to purchase your products from the highly skilled & expertly trained automotive technical personnel at Walmart and Autozone.
If we compare the marketing methods, Mobil & Castrol choose to sell their features & benefits to you with 4color ad slicks through WW, AZ and Sam's (which is how I purchased my Mobil 1 & Syntec products). On the other hand, Amsoil chooses to use MLM or direct internet sales (which is how I purchased my Amsoil products).
I, too, am turned off by someone who attempts to try to tell me what to think whether it be a lubricant or used car salesman. I also am turned off by underprepared sales personnel that can barely tell me where the oil section is. On the other hand I do appreciate someone who knows their product and can present the features & benefits in a logical, productive manner that answers the question I have. To our misfortune, there aren't many in that mold around, but to our good fortune we have both found this website which seems to have several. Because of their obvious bias, I do not expect a salesman to be objective, thus leaving it up to me to seek out different viewpoints and make my own educated decision. I encourage you to lurk here a while, read lots, form your own opinion and report the experience to all of us so that we can all use it.
I have used all of the brands listed and have developed strong opinions concerning how they "feel" in my 1996 Ranger 4.0l V6 (106k) and 2002 GMC Yukon XL 5.3l (42k).
The Ranger for most of its early life had Mobil 1 5w30 and Fram PH8A's. At about 50k, I began to also use Castrol Syntec 5w30, whichever was on sale. OCI's every 3000 miles religiously until 100k. I noticed no difference between Mobil 1 & Castrol. The oil was always burnt & black coming out of the pan at oil change time. At 100k, I decide to change over to Amsoil S2k 0w30 (based on experience gained in the Yukon). I also installed an AMsoil BK-13 dual remote bypass filter (Amsoil BE-90 & SDF-15) because I want the truck to last forever. With 6k on this oil (primarily 6 mile commutes to & from work) through this BP system, the oil is practically as clean as it was when I poured it out of the jug. No difference in mpg, but the engine never turned over so easy and runs much smoother than ever. I plan a used oil analysis at 10k on the oil to see if what I feel is true. When the full flow filter needs changing, I will go to a Baldwin B2-HPG due to superior filtration and flow characteristics (and cost! about 2/3 the price of Amsoil).
The Yukon has similar history. Mobil 1 & Castrol Syntech 5w30 w/Frams until I found this website last spring. I stumbled onto this site because I was planning a cross country trip in this car and needed an extended drain 2x+ of my normal OCI. As a result of lots of reading, I decided to try Amsoil S2k 0w30 and the larger dirt holding capacity Amsoil filter (forget the #). As above with the Ranger, the Yukon "feels" slicker and runs smoother than ever with about 9k on the oil. When the OLM came on at about 7800 miles, I did a used oil analysis that came out superb and is posted on this site. I changed filter brands, again to Baldwin based on a comparison of several filters Beta ratios and flow rates (and cost! about half the price of Amsoil). My next filter for the Yukon will be the Amsoil Ea filter because it is the first filter I have seen to offer superior filtration, dirt holding capacity and flow characteristics for the GM motors without having to go remote bypass.
To summarize, I have used all three brands and feel Amsoil oils to be superior. Unless something in future used oil analysis says different, I'll never look back.
First of all, let me say I am not a dealer and thus do not have a dog in the fight. From your complaint it seems you are turned off by an overzealous Amsoil dealer. Instead you prefer to purchase your products from the highly skilled & expertly trained automotive technical personnel at Walmart and Autozone.
If we compare the marketing methods, Mobil & Castrol choose to sell their features & benefits to you with 4color ad slicks through WW, AZ and Sam's (which is how I purchased my Mobil 1 & Syntec products). On the other hand, Amsoil chooses to use MLM or direct internet sales (which is how I purchased my Amsoil products).
I, too, am turned off by someone who attempts to try to tell me what to think whether it be a lubricant or used car salesman. I also am turned off by underprepared sales personnel that can barely tell me where the oil section is. On the other hand I do appreciate someone who knows their product and can present the features & benefits in a logical, productive manner that answers the question I have. To our misfortune, there aren't many in that mold around, but to our good fortune we have both found this website which seems to have several. Because of their obvious bias, I do not expect a salesman to be objective, thus leaving it up to me to seek out different viewpoints and make my own educated decision. I encourage you to lurk here a while, read lots, form your own opinion and report the experience to all of us so that we can all use it.
I have used all of the brands listed and have developed strong opinions concerning how they "feel" in my 1996 Ranger 4.0l V6 (106k) and 2002 GMC Yukon XL 5.3l (42k).
The Ranger for most of its early life had Mobil 1 5w30 and Fram PH8A's. At about 50k, I began to also use Castrol Syntec 5w30, whichever was on sale. OCI's every 3000 miles religiously until 100k. I noticed no difference between Mobil 1 & Castrol. The oil was always burnt & black coming out of the pan at oil change time. At 100k, I decide to change over to Amsoil S2k 0w30 (based on experience gained in the Yukon). I also installed an AMsoil BK-13 dual remote bypass filter (Amsoil BE-90 & SDF-15) because I want the truck to last forever. With 6k on this oil (primarily 6 mile commutes to & from work) through this BP system, the oil is practically as clean as it was when I poured it out of the jug. No difference in mpg, but the engine never turned over so easy and runs much smoother than ever. I plan a used oil analysis at 10k on the oil to see if what I feel is true. When the full flow filter needs changing, I will go to a Baldwin B2-HPG due to superior filtration and flow characteristics (and cost! about 2/3 the price of Amsoil).
The Yukon has similar history. Mobil 1 & Castrol Syntech 5w30 w/Frams until I found this website last spring. I stumbled onto this site because I was planning a cross country trip in this car and needed an extended drain 2x+ of my normal OCI. As a result of lots of reading, I decided to try Amsoil S2k 0w30 and the larger dirt holding capacity Amsoil filter (forget the #). As above with the Ranger, the Yukon "feels" slicker and runs smoother than ever with about 9k on the oil. When the OLM came on at about 7800 miles, I did a used oil analysis that came out superb and is posted on this site. I changed filter brands, again to Baldwin based on a comparison of several filters Beta ratios and flow rates (and cost! about half the price of Amsoil). My next filter for the Yukon will be the Amsoil Ea filter because it is the first filter I have seen to offer superior filtration, dirt holding capacity and flow characteristics for the GM motors without having to go remote bypass.
To summarize, I have used all three brands and feel Amsoil oils to be superior. Unless something in future used oil analysis says different, I'll never look back.
Superior is a word that is sometimes difficult to understand and is most likely all that's left in a persons mind to stay with a product. I know that company's like Amsoil buy there ad-pacs from a major lube package manufacturer. Other oil companys like Chevron/Texaco have there own packages they manufacture. I really believe that all of the top contenders are so close in production quality only our thinking seperates whom is the superior one and makes us move to that oil. What BITOG does, is hold those companies accountable to continue to search and be the best. BITOG's people are great and with this site...I know the Big Oil Companys are reading what we say, and the Smaller Oil Companys are listening and might change our Paradime someday to what we feel is another superior oil...
Amsoil 5w30 actual results
Mobil 1 (previous formulation) actual results
I think Schaeffer's premium synthetic blends are the equal of either of these, and better value.
http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/703.pdf
Ken
Mobil 1 (previous formulation) actual results
I think Schaeffer's premium synthetic blends are the equal of either of these, and better value.
http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/703.pdf
Ken
Ken-
got any data on Shaeffer not FROM Schaeffer?
got any data on Shaeffer not FROM Schaeffer?
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