AMSOIL ATF '02 Accord V6 Auto 15k mile OCI

[benjamming]

I drained & refilled 3 qts of AMSOIL ATF when this sample was taken. Therefore the most recent UOA is 3 qt. AMSOIL and the rest Z1 fluid.
The car sees very mixed driving. A couple times a week there is a 1 minute 4500 rpm run up a mountain after it has been on the highway for 20 minutes.

Code:

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ATF used AMSOIL ATF Honda ATF Z1 Honda ATF Z1 Factory fill

Sample Date Jan-19-2007 Jan-28-2006 Jan-29-2005 Mar-13-2004

Miles on oil 15,003 12,836 10,224 21,948

Miles on car 60,011 45,008 32,172 21,948

Make-up oil None None None None

Aluminum: 74 36 27 26

Chromium: 1 1 1 1

Iron: 70 60 53 59

Copper: 8 7 7 9

Lead: 3 2 1 1

Tin: 0 1 1 1

Molybdenum: 1 1 1 0

Nickel: 0 0 0 0

Manganese: 1 1 0 0

Silver: 0 0 0 0

Titanium: 0 0 0 0

Potassium: 0 0 0 0

Boron: 209 243 228 222

Silicon: 14 10 10 11

Sodium: 8 4 6 9

Calcium: 323 388 351 334

Magnesium: 136 258 221 208

Phosphorus: 176 2 8 3

Zinc: 206 356 320 242

Barium: 1 2 3 4

SUS Viscosity: 45.8 44.3 45.4 45.0

Flashpoint: 365 340 350 355

Water: 0 0 0 0

Insolubles: Trace 0 0 0

TAN: 0.9 0.5 0.4 0.4

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[The Critic]

Viscosity and flashpoint are a bit better with Amsoil, but TAN is much higher.

And what happened to your Aluminum?

Perhaps time to see Mr. Dyson, is something in your transmission about to go boom?

 

[Pablo]

I do believe there is some cleaning going on here - I don't know what the capacity of this transmission - oops hold on - 7.6 qts - so it's not not quite 50% Amsoil, and some of the old fluid is aging......maybe this gives some validity to the complete flush and fill school of thought.

Good data - thanks for posting! I would go ahead and do a full flush and refill at this point.

 

[benjamming]

Cleaning huh? I didn't realize that the AMSOIL ATF had such good cleaning characteristics. There was the usual amount of shavings & debris on the magnet.

Reckon what % is still factory fill?

Blackstone advised me to double check that AMSOIL ATF was approved for use in a Honda AT.

I did consult with Terry on the previous UOA in Jan-2006.

 

[TeeDub]

The Amsoil ATF uses ZDDP instead of just zinc, as in the Honda Z-1 fluid.

I expect what you are seeing is a changeover effect as the AW film is being disturbed and re-formed. This would only be expected to affect the levels of Al and Fe, as you see here. ZDDP has little or no effect on bearing materials...

 

[Pablo]

Yes - cleaning in the form TS describes. I reckon about 1/2 - 1/4 qt of the original fluid is circulating.

 

[benjamming]

Thanks guys. Do y'all think that the AW film was compromised with the mixture of the fluids causing increased wear?

I did now know that about the zinc & ZDDP.

 

[unDummy]

Were the previous UOAs flushes or partial drain/refills?

I don't think that the AW film was compromised. If so, the Pb/Cu would've shot up.

If there is cleaning, some of the Al/Fe could just be stuff that settled and has been washed back into the transmission. If you don't have an inline filter, get one.

Until you get a higher percentage of Amsoil, don't go too long on the interval. Stick with 10k intervals.

 

[benjamming]

All previous UOAs were from drain/refills of 3 qt. ATF. The magnetic drain plug is wiped clean every time, of course. This is the only "filter" on the car besides the internal screen that will catch the gears and torque converter innards as they 'circulate'.

My original plan was to continue a drain/refill every 15k miles. I wanted to run at least 2 intervals with AMSOIL b/c it's only a partial drain & the 1st one wouldn't be very indicative of what AMSOIL can/can't do in this auto. After these results, I haven't decided what I'm going to do exactly.

 

[Pablo]

So now in the AT is 6qts of Amsoil?

 

[benjamming]

Well, not exactly 6 qts b/c at 45k miles I drained the ATF & added 3 qt. AMSOIL and then at 60k miles I again drained the ATF & added 3 qt. AMSOIL. So, some of the AMSOIL drained out at 60k miles.

 

[Pablo]

duh yeah - sorry. If you don't want to do a full flush at this point - just continue on this path, then two drains from now you should have nearly all Amsoil - then do a UOA. You should be fine - if your transmission doesn't do the normal Honda grenade thing.

 

[Lexura]

I like the idea of installing an external transmission filter to remove metal particles. IMHO it is a better solution to get rid of metal particles suspended in the fluid, over draining out Amsoil ATF that you just used for 15K.

 

[ARB1977]

Quote:

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I like the idea of installing an external transmission filter to remove metal particles. IMHO it is a better solution to get rid of metal particles suspended in the fluid, over draining out Amsoil ATF that you just used for 15K.

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Thats what i did between my stock cooler and aftermarket cooler along with a filter mag from filtermag.com.

 

[ekpolk]

Subpar, irrelevant material removed. Come on guys, keep it cool.

 

[nicholas]

Wow you gotta love Amsoil's amazing cleaning ability...., Cleaning the Iron, and Aluminum right out of your honda trans........, It really makes me shake my head....., If this were any other fluid...........,
Most people would say, your wear metals have spiked, maybe its not a good fluid for your trans.....

But, its Amsoil so you are ok......., what a joke.....,

To the OP, please get another UOA, of AMSOIL at a higher conentration Im dying to see what it will look like.;>

 

[benjamming]

oh, there will be another UOA at the 75k mile mark which will be in another ~ 7k miles.

 

[Pablo]

ben - that will be great. We just hit the 20K mark, so I want to do a couple more drain and fills with Amsoil ATF before sampling, but mine is the supposed grenade proof 2006.....The 2002 is still in scary territory……pardon my terrible memory, all is original on the transmission, correct? Do you have the towing cooler?

 

[benjamming]

My AT is a 4-speed from the 6th generation Accord. Everything magically got better by the 2002 model per Honda since they only extended the warranty up to the 2001 model year. Maybe they did change the carrier bearings and didn't notify me

. Everything is still the same as it left the factory. No option on the Accord (at least not back then & I don't think currently) for towing package. I'm sure your Odyssey has this.

I may have the option of leaving the car parked while I wait on the analysis to return to see what fluid I want to use as refill.

 

[Laminar Lou]

Pardon my memory, did the Accord transmission have the re-jet or was it just the Odyssey? And if the Accord was recalled for the transmission, did you have it done?