Amsoil ASE vs. ACD for small Air-Cooled Engines

[Pete591]

I used to use a 30wt synthetic but after just 20 hrs found they sheared to a grade lesser than they began with. So I am back to a 15W-50 which by the time the oil is changed is showing to be close to a 30wt by analysis.

These engines beat an oil to death with heat and brutal shear. Lots of hot spots that fry the oil. The mower bumps along it's path and sometimes up and down terrain that causes temporary oil starvation.

The oil that has performed best for me is Motul.

M-1 15W-50 has sheared down to a 40wt in my mowers

Additionally, most mowers do not have a way of getting metal out as they have no filter.

It's no wonder they do last but loose power over time more than other engines.

 

[Brett Miller]

Buy the ASE and use the savings to buy beer, then sleep well knowing you have an excellent oil in the crankcase.

 

[doitmyself]

Quote:
used to use a 30wt synthetic but after just 20 hrs found they sheared to a grade lesser than they began with.


Pete, could you show us a UOA on the synthetic 30Wt. that sheared? That would be good information to share.

 

[btanchors]

doitmyself, I am currently running Mobil 1 EP 10w30 in my 15 HP Kohler. I plan to do a UOA at the end of this season, which I will post here.

Brett - what kind of beer is best?

 

[Pete591]

I ran M-1 10w30 in a Briggs VamGuard V-Twin and after 15 hrs sent in a sample. Viscosity read in the range of a 5w30. Not the end of the world but it was after only 10 hrs. SUS vis @ 210*F was 57.4 and cst@ 100*C was 9.48. NO fuel or water in sample.

Switched to Redline 20W-50 and sent a sample in after 10 hrs; SUS vis @ 210*F was 84.4 and cST Vis@100*C showed 16.62. Fuel was less than 0.5%. Viscosity was slightly low.

My take is that if you can run a 30wt in mowers a 15W-50 should flow like a 15W and you get more protection against shear and dilution. It's a no brainer? I think so.

The big concern is these engines tend to dilute fuel into the oil over the season. Why not aim high?

My .02

 

[Mamala Bay]

A lot depends how long the season is how many hours. Also fuel makes a difference and how long does it sit in the tank. Do you use a fuel stabilizer as bad gas can degrade the oil.

I've seen small engines with no oil filters with 50 hrs/monthly. Oil was changed every 25 hrs with Delo400 30w. The Delo400 10w30 was also used as a comparison they both ran fine but the 30w had a more tacky feel at operating temp. In time the 30w held out far better, it was a no brainer using the 30w. These engines are geared for a 30w not a 10w30 or 15w-50 or 20w-50 as I know the difference..the Delo400 10w30 just didn't fit the bill. I can understand in cold weather situation but I'm not dealing with cold weather but ideal temp conditions.

Also noted as in "SMALL ENGINES" they aren't V-8's pumping instant hp at startup...the 30w is the ideal proper weight.

 

[Pete591]

I am certain ASE is a great oil.

Right now I am using Motul 15W-50 in my 16HP Vanguard. Nothing I have used has lead to it starting faster and running better. I do like the fact Motul has a dose of friction modification agents in it. I know ASE does not. Just a personal preferance.

The newer Briggs engines with a filter call for 10w30 synthetic I understand.

If I were to use a 10w30 in that case I would give ASE a go.

 

[Mamala Bay]

I can't quite understand your approach. The engine I was talking about is [censored] harder on the oil than the 16HP Vanguard. Your on easy cake....the Delo400 30w suites it fine big deal and your OCI manual recommended??? 100 hrs. I still can't see anything why you should use nothing but a 30w is ideal...why the Motul?

 

[Pete591]

Motul 15W-50 is what a local landscaping company near our place uses in all it's equiptment. It's got to be 10x overkill.

I can see I am the odd man out going with this weight and brand.

 

[Turk]

Uh. Now I don't know which. In Minnesota, so it sees 45-85F.

A delo 15w40 or a 30 wt. in my 11 year old 17.5HP Twin B&S that does burn a bit...

 

[Mamala Bay]

Go with a 30w. Amsoil does sell the ASE 30w(10-30w). I don't see any problems with this application.

 

[Brett Miller]

Originally Posted By: btanchors
doitmyself, I am currently running Mobil 1 EP 10w30 in my 15 HP Kohler. I plan to do a UOA at the end of this season, which I will post here.

Brett - what kind of beer is best?


I'm a Yuengling Lager man.

 

[Pete591]

I have always found M-1 15W-50 a good substitute for a 30wt or 40wt manufacturer's recommendation with documented low wear numbers from Blackstone.

Why is this?

 

[Mamala Bay]

How many hours was the OCI and how many months. On older Kohler and B&S engines with thousand(s) of hours of usage stepping up to a 40w was to increase compression. The 40w was a little heavy but gave better protection given the number of hours these engines were in service. In most situation I highly doubt most will have that many hours on these small engines.

 

[FrankN4]

Pete

Mobil 1 15W-50 is a lighter 15W-50. It has a 40C cSt of 131.2 anda 100C cSt of 18.1. In fact, I use it in all my families cars and trucks, even those that call for 5W-20 or 5w30.

If you start your mower on a cool 50F morning, it still has great pump-ability because of the 15W and also because the cSt is in the 600 range. At 240F oil temperature, often reached in an air cooled engine such as mowers and lawn tractors, the cSt is 13. That is a low 40 grade but still plenty enough to protect the engine, not watered down. M1 15W-50 also has a HTHS of 4.56 and a ZDDP package of 1200.

I now use motorcycle oils in my small engines and they work great. Mobil 1 has a 10W-40 motorcycle oil that has a good viscosity range, high ZDDP, I can't remember the HTHS but I think it is about 3.8. Amsoil has two great motorcycle oils, 10w30 and 10W-40, that would be very good for small air cooled engines.

Being extremely, painfully, honest. I cannot remember ever having WORN OUT one of these small engines. I have worn them down, and I have hit things and broken them, but they just keep running if you actually do the maintenance on a regular basis. I would bet that any of the automotive 10w30 oils, especially synthetics, with a 100C cSt of 11.0 or more would let the engine outlive the rest of the equipment. I am a maintenance fanatic and I try to use what "I" believe to be the best. My new John Deere lawn tractor and my new trim mower with 5 HP B&S are getting motorcycle oils.

 

[TeeDub]

If you run a high viscosity oil in an air cooled engine, both the oil and the motor will run measurably hotter. There are two reasons for this:

1) Increased "intra-fluid" friction

2) Lower thermal conductivity than a less viscous lubricant, ie less efficient heat transfer

 

[Pete591]

Most of the wear takes place at starting.

A 10W or 15W synthetic flows very very well.

That's why I use M-1 15W-50 or Motul 15W-50. Much faster/easier starts with Motul especially. Motul is my #1 pick for pressure lube tractor motors.

 

[btanchors]

For what it's worth, I thought I would mention that I have chosen Amsoil MCT motorcycle oil for my small engines - the new 10w30 motorcycle oil from Amsoil. I didn't expect as many responses to this thread that I started, but I am greatful for the discussion! Quite interesting.