Amsoil ASE vs. ACD for small Air-Cooled Engines

[btanchors]

What are the principle differences between ASE 10W-30 vs. ACD 10W-30? I know these are marketed for two different applications, (small air-cooled engines vs. big diesels,respectively). But what are the differences in how the oil is constructed?

I notice the ASE is suitable for use in wet-clutch systems in motorcycles. Does this suggest that ASE is "Less slippery" for lack of a better word than ACD? Would ACD allow the engine to be more fuel efficient?

If price is not an issue, which would be better for small air-cooled engines?

 

[Steve S]

The straight 30 /10w-30 is the best choice sheer stable and it has a higher additive package. Will it make a difference ? I wouldn't know

 

[btanchors]

I think both ACD and ASE qualify as meeting 10W-30 without VI Improver Additives - In other words, they meet any requirements for straight 30 weight as well. Steve - Which one has the higher additive package, ASE or ACD? I couldn't tell from your posting...

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: btanchors
I think both ACD and ASE qualify as meeting 10W-30 without VI Improver Additives - In other words, they meet any requirements for straight 30 weight as well. Steve - Which one has the higher additive package, ASE or ACD? I couldn't tell from your posting...


I don't know the answer to that but I would guess the ACD since it's made for diesels. My TL engine looks brand new under the valvecovers at 65,000 miles with the ACD.

 

[pickled]

FYI- The ASE was formulated for the applications you are looking at. As I recommended previously it is the way for you to go if you are looking at amsoil. It does not contain VII's or friction modifiers (why you can use it in a motorcycle clutch and the transmission of a tractor) and it's volatility is profoundly amazing (no thickening over time). It definitely resists shear as well. Essentially Amsoil saw the need for a specific oil (most of the dealers and DJ's I know were pushing ACD for small engines before ASE was rolled out) and tweaked the formula to optimize it for the need. If you don't have a small diesel that you want to run extended OCI's on then you don't need the added expense of the ACD additive package. The TBN's are notably different (8.4 vs 12.1), and the HTHS of ASE is 3.25 cST vs 3.4 cST for ACD. Granted ACD is tough, but I don't think that you will see a noticeable difference in a positive direction vs. use of ASE for what you previously stated you needed it for. If you hadn't searched for it yet pull up the uoa i posted on the golf course (John Deere mower) equipment. Cliff notes say ASE used for 30 hours over factory recommended interval with next to donut for wear and a TBN still in the 7's. Oh yeah lastly the difference in purchase configuration is that you can't get ACD in quart quantities...only gallons. Good luck Sir.

 

[doitmyself]

Unless tested, I don't believe there is an answer. The "more is better" crowd will suggest ACD because of it's higher TBN/additive package. I "think" Pablo endorses ACD for his own outdoor power equipment (correct me Mr. P, if required).

But, since gas engines don't produce the soot and acid like diesels, the higher TBN is moot, as far as I am concerned.

Amsoil are marketing geniuses and they brought out a product labeled to satisfy both major engine camps (Kawasaki and Kohler)regarding the recommendation for either straight 30W or 10W30.

FYI, here's their reply to ASE vs. ASD:

"In response to your recent e-mail, we thank you for bringing this question to our attention. In review of your noted application, our preferred recommendation would be the use of the AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke, Small Engine oil product code ASE. We would suggest this product over the AMSOIL ACD for several reasons. The first would be that the ASE addresses oil consumption common in small engines to a greater degree than the ACD product. Secondly the ASE utilizes additive chemistry more appropriate for a gasoline application such as you Kawasaki whereas the ACD is more directed toward heavy duty diesel applications. Should your equipment be used on a seasonal basis, the ASE would also offer a higher degree of protection during those periods on prolong inactivity. The ASE was developed as a straight SAE 30 grade product. The natural low temperature properties of its synthetic base stock however allows it to meet the low temp performance requirements of a multi-grade 10W-30 oil. Indeed, this product is suitable for use in application calling for a straight grade SAE 30 fluid. We hope you will find this helpful and should questions remain, please let us know."

 

[Turk]

Fabulous answer!

 

[btanchors]

Ok - I am sold on ASE vs. ACD for this application. But now, this raised another question in my mind - What is the difference between ASE and MCT? They look very similar in their specs...

 

[Harley Anderson]

I've been using ACD for the past couple years in all my small engines. Any leftovers gets used in my diesel truck for makeup oil in the bp filter. Thats my only reason for using it.

I'm not too keen on the specialty oils, when a HDEO of the same viscocity can do the same job.

And I like to buy my oil in gallon quantites as pointed out by pickled.

 

[Harley Anderson]

To add to my reply, I always wondered why Amsoil had so many different oils that fell into the same category. I am no tribologist or engineer and knowing that, there must be a reason that different formulations tailor to that specific need. I guess I agree with "the more is better" notion on here.

I'm sure pickled can help me out here.

AME vs MCF
ARO vs MCV
ACD vs ASE
ACD vs ACT and ACT vs ASE
AMO vs AME

One example is that I use AME in my diesel and just started using it in one of my motorcycles vs using MCF. There is a $2.00 difference per quart, the more expensive option being tailored to motorcycles and the cheaper being suited for diesels. Well we all know that the most common HDEO Rotella, is widely used by just about every type of vehicle out there. I didn't want to start a HDEO war, but was hoping if pickled could shed some light on maybe the small differences there are between these two oils other than what was stated from Amsoil.

 

[daman]

Search this topic,,been brought up many times..i use ACD in all
my lawn equipment. $.02

 

[FrankN4]

The ASE can be used in motorcycles with wet clutches because it does not contain friction modifiers. The ACD does not have friction modifiers either.

I was set to order the ASE for my small engines and my lawn tractor until I noticed the new 10W-30 motorcycle oil and I have decided to use it instead.

I asked Amsoil about ZDDP and the ASE has 1346 nominal ZDDP. I think that is about the same as the motorcycle 10W-30 but the motorcycle oil has a better HTHS. The motorcycle oil also has great rust/corrosion prevention for sleeping in the garage all winter.

 

[btanchors]

FrankN4,

Well, We have come full circle - After the discussion in this and other threads, I was all set to use ASE, when I took a look at the MCT product you mention. ASE has better Flash/Fire Point figures, but MCT has better initial TBN. Both claim to have the rust/corrosion preventitive you mention.

So, which one? ASE or MCT for small air-cooled engines?

 

[FrankN4]

It appears that the MCT may have a slightly thicker base oil because of the higher HTHS. This means it could handle higher heat and air cooled lawn tractor engines normally run hotter than liquid cooled motorcycle engines. On the other hand, motorcycles engines have changing RPM and loads while lawn tractors have relative constant RPM and the load changes aren't that great, at least in my situations. Also, I am SURE that Amsoil took the high temperatures of air cooled lawn engines/utility engines into consideration when creating the add package for the ASE.

The TBN is not really important to me as I never leave an oil in to the point where the TBN would be a concern.

I don't think it is possible to go wrong with either oil. It is the higher HTHS that I wanted, and there is little difference there, and I am trading other things to get that HTHS.

 

[btanchors]

FrankN4 -

Apparently Amsoil agrees with you...I had an email exchange today with Amsoil...Here is what I sent them, followed by their response:

Greetings, I have a small "fleet" of small, air- cooled 4-cycle engines in equipment for my lawnmowing/landscaping business. These include engines manufactured by Kohler, Briggs and Stratton, and Techumseh, ranging from 3.5 to 15 Horsepower. I was going to order ASE to use for the motor oil, when the new MCT caught my eye. In comparing the two oils, Both have the same 4-ball wear results. The ASE has higher Flash/Firepoint figures, but the MCT has better initial TBN. The MCT has better HTHS figures, whereas the ASE has a bit better NOACK volatility figures. For my situation, cold weather operation, and initial cost of the oil are not concerns. I am sure both ASE or MCT would be excellent choices, but I'm looking for that "extra edge" of protection. Which should I use for my fleet - ASE or MCT? Which has the "beefier" additive package?

The response:
Thank you for contacting AMSOIL.

In response to your inquiry, you are correct that both ASE and MCT would be excellent choices for your equipment. The differences between the two oils and their test results are mixed, but the higher TBN and HT/HS results for MCT would only become important for extended drain intervals. Since MCT is recommended for OEM drain intervals when used “off road”, these statistical advantages are not as important.

If cost is not a consideration, MCT is a superior oil to ASE.

As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.

Conclusion:

I'd still like to know more about the additive package differences between ASE and MCT (i.e., amounts of zinc, calcium, etc.), but I think I am going to go with MCT. Comments?

 

[Cup of Joe]

This is all interesting, why hasn't anyone mentioned WCT exactly? Take a look and compare it to MCT better on paper, but slightly cheaper.

 

[btanchors]

Oh No...I was all set to order MCT and now that I have looked at WCT, I see your point...Since I plan to order enough to last over a year, I want to pick the best oil...

More seriously, I wonder if WCT has friction modifiers. For my equipment, compatibility with wet clutches is not one of my requirements. I would think friction modifiers would be beneficial for my equipment. Finally, I think the rust inhibitor is beneficial, and WCT certainly has that, as well as MCT and ASE.

So many choices to obsess over But I guess that is what this group is about! More comments, anyone?

 

[doitmyself]

From Amsoil:


Quote:
but the higher TBN and HT/HS results for MCT would only become important for extended drain intervals. Since MCT is recommended for OEM drain intervals when used “off road”, these statistical advantages are not as important.



The question for me is if the attributes of the "better" oils would ever be utilized or even protect the engine better?

Kind of like.....if taking 4 aspirin is good, is 6 better.

Amsoil seems to imply only if you are extending drains. Then one has to ask if there is a cost/benefit to running your Zero turn mower for 150 hours instead of 100 hour OCI.

 

[btanchors]

In my situation, I like to change oil once a year...At the end of the season. I have too many small engines to deal with, and quite frankly, it's hard to take the time to do oil changes when I have lots of jobs in front of me. I don't have hour meters on any of my equipment...I suspect some of my equipment easily reaches 100 hours or more each season, so extended drain capability might be helpful.

 

[Mamala Bay]

On the larger air cooled 4 cycle Kohler engines used on golf courses they easily go 100 hrs 2-3 months. Recommended oil intervals are every 100 hrs. On the much smaller engines recommended oil intervals every 25 hrs.