Amsoil 5w30 European Formula any good?

Artem · May 9, 2011

I'm trying to find an oil that will stay in grade a bit better then most since my Modified 2007 Honda Civic Si has a tendency to sheer oil into the 20 weight rather easily.

I've used Amsoil ASL 5w30 previously but seemed to sheer it by the end of my 3k OCI.

I'm thinking of trying Amsoil Euro formula but i'm lost as to its specs.

I've been comparing it to ASL's specs but still am completely lost.

Amsoil says its: A Low-SAPS, Low-Viscosity Formula for European Gasoline and Diesel Engines

Does the low viscosity quote mean its on the lower end of a 30 weight?

Since its designed as a performance oil for cars asking for a 30 weight, i'm lost by the low viscosity quote....

Can someone explain?

TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES
European Car Formula 100% Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil (AEL)
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
12.3
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
76.3
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)
159
Viscosity CCS, cP @ °C (ASTM D-5293)
6350 (-30)
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92)
238 (460)
Fire Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92)
258 (496)
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)
-43 (-45)
Noack Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D-5800)
7.8
Four Ball Wear Test (ASTM D-4172B @ 40 kg, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 1 hr), Scar, mm
0.45
Total Base Number
5.8
HTHS (cP) (ASTM D-4683)
3.7

Amsoil Euro Formula

BobFout · May 9, 2011

It's a lower visco than most euro cars have called for in the past, xw40. It's a thick-30 wt oil in terms of 100C visco and HTHS.

Amsoil HDD or AMO might be options too. Same with any of their other diesel oils (5w40 and 15w40)

Since you already use Red Line in your other Civic, why not this one too?

Artem · May 9, 2011

So it is in fact a thick 30 weight? That's basically what i wanted to hear and use for the HOT summer months in hopes of staying in a 30 weight by the end of my 3k OCI.

Thanks for the reply.

I'm currently using Redline 5w30 in the Si and awaiting the UOA to see how it held up.

BobFout · May 9, 2011

Depending on how much fuel you burn in 5K miles, TBN may be an issue with a low SAPS oil like this.

Artem · May 10, 2011

Well the 2.0L in my Honda Civic Si gets roughly 27mpg ave city/highway with a 13.2 gallon tank capacity. I usually fill up 11-12 gallons after 300-320 miles per tank.

I hope the TBN retention will be enough to last me 3k miles worth (my OCI with the Modified engine in the Si which is putting out more power then stock)

BobFout · May 10, 2011

Originally Posted By: Artem
Well the 2.0L in my Honda Civic Si gets roughly 27mpg ave city/highway with a 13.2 gallon tank capacity. I usually fill up 11-12 gallons after 300-320 miles per tank.

I hope the TBN retention will be enough to last me 3k miles worth (my OCI with the Modified engine in the Si which is putting out more power then stock)

With only 3K miles, TBN should be fine.

Fuzz1 · May 11, 2011

Hey Artem. My car is very similar to yours, Only diff is mine is running the slightly more powerful K20Z4 vs your K20Z3.

See my link below

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/liqui-moly-5w30-top-tec-4300-in-a-honda-fn2-type-r.153892/

I plan to run this oil pretty soon. What i havent mention in the post is that i used the Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200 5w30 with great success. Did 5000kms on it with no oil consumption and that includes regular track time. It did not shear at all.

Honda guys here in SA swear by LM Top Tec 4300 as the 4300 has a sub 10cst viscocity @ 100C which is preferred when it comes to the k20 engine

01fordcobra · May 12, 2011

AMSOIL Dealer here. I am amazed that you sheered that ASL oil at only 3k miles honestly. That is a 25,000 mile oil or 17K severe duty. Instead of you running the AEL like you have listed why don't you try running to AFL 5w40. I think you will be amazed at how long this will last compared to the ASL or AEL you were going to run. Just my 2 cents though.

hate2work · May 12, 2011

OP, what do you mean when you said the ASL "seemed to shear" by the end of the 3k OCI? Did you have the viscosity tested?

Fuzz1 · May 12, 2011

i would assume that the Amsoil wasnt tested in severly high revving engines such as our tuned Honda's (and other Euro performance car) if he was experiencing severe sheer.

My Honda Type R has a Rev limiter set to 9000rpm ( i produce peak power at 8500rpm ) which could shear an oil not specifically designed for this purpose. Plus , with iVtec which switches cam lobes constantly , the cams could put extreme stress on the oil...

I could be completely wrong about this but its a theory that as good as Amsoil generally is , maybe its more accustomed to American cars than the high output , low displacment high revving engines that the Japanese and Europeans engineer....

Thats why i listen to the the head of Spoon Sports where he discussed using the correct Euro and Japanese oils best for Hondas... Spoon built a 11 000RPM Civic and some of the fastest S2000's in the world so i would trust Ichisima of Spoons input ;-)

01fordcobra · May 13, 2011

Originally Posted By: Fuzz1
i would assume that the Amsoil wasnt tested in severly high revving engines such as our tuned Honda's (and other Euro performance car) if he was experiencing severe sheer.

My Honda Type R has a Rev limiter set to 9000rpm ( i produce peak power at 8500rpm ) which could shear an oil not specifically designed for this purpose. Plus , with iVtec which switches cam lobes constantly , the cams could put extreme stress on the oil...

I could be completely wrong about this but its a theory that as good as Amsoil generally is , maybe its more accustomed to American cars than the high output , low displacment high revving engines that the Japanese and Europeans engineer....

Thats why i listen to the the head of Spoon Sports where he discussed using the correct Euro and Japanese oils best for Hondas... Spoon built a 11 000RPM Civic and some of the fastest S2000's in the world so i would trust Ichisima of Spoons input ;-)

You could be correct. However; the type of AMSOIL you use is just as important. The AMSOIL brand is excellent, but if your using the wrong type of AMSOIL in your engine it could sheer early or have other adverse effects, which is why they make so many different kinds with different additives.

redrocker55 · May 14, 2011

I run the 5w40 version of the Amsoil Euro in my 2 oil shredding direction injected VW engines. First is a 2.0 FSI and it's notoriously hard on oils. The other is a 3.0 TFSI and I've been running 6,500-7,000 mile OCI on this engine with very very low wear numbers...viscosity has held in check and the TBN has remained well above 1 which Blackstone considers low (time to change the oil).

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/amsoil-5w40-euro-6-628-miles-2010-audi-s4.153176/

Craig in Canada · May 14, 2011

Low SAPS oils (like those with LL-04) have been NOT recommended for use in North America in gasoline engines by BMW. I believe E10 is part of the problem, but maybe not all. BMW allows LL-04 use in North American diesels.

Looking at that issue alone, I'd be reluctant to run it regardless of any other specs it carries since you're in North America running North American gasoline.

CATERHAM · May 14, 2011

Oil shear is really an over stated issue with most motor oils today and it shouldn't deter anyone from choosing a high VI oil, a good example of which would be M1 0W-40 with it's VI of 185.

Amsoil 5W-30 AEL with it's HTHS vis of 3.7cP is a very heavy 30wt oil bordering on 40wt oil. With it's relatively low VI of 159 I suspect it contains little if any VIIs so I doubt it will shear at all not that it matters.
Because of it's low VI this oil will be vary thick on start-up. Even a room temperture it will be at least 10% heavier than M1 0W-40 and a whopping 25% (or more) at 0C.

Even in a modified car it rarely necessary to run a heavier oil than spec'd by the mfter; in this case a 30wt with a HTHS of nominally 3.1cP. The only reason for doing so would be if you're generating higher than normal oil temp's and on the street that usually isn't the case.
Ultimately the proper way to fine tune one's oil viscosity selection is with an oil pressure gauge; something that every modified car should have.

wlyszkow · May 16, 2011

AEL and M1 0W-40 have the same viscosity at +27C (about 137,5cSt), below +25C AEL becomes slightly heavier than M1 and above +27C - AEL becomes slightly lighter.
At 0C AEL has ~700cSt and M1 ~600cSt when new/fresh.
Key difference between the oils is saps (1,2% for M1) so probably about twice higher than AEL - due to M1's higher ZDDP and TBN.

To get VW 504/507 or C30 there must be almost NO VII improvers - they die with high pressure and form sludge.

What happens with M1 0W-40 or high VI Castrol TWS and then with an engine driven high rpm you can see here:
http://www.pimanracing.net/blackstone/oil_02_2010_07.gif (2k mi)
http://www.pimanracing.net/blackstone/oil_02_2010_07.gif (1k mi)

Craig in Canada · May 16, 2011

Originally Posted By: wlyszkow

What happens with M1 0W-40 or high VI Castrol TWS and then with an engine driven high rpm you can see here:
http://www.pimanracing.net/blackstone/oil_02_2010_07.gif (2k mi)
http://www.pimanracing.net/blackstone/oil_02_2010_07.gif (1k mi)

You gave the identical link in both cases above.

Regardless, if Blackstone is to be believed the 100C cSt of the sample is 11.3 compared to a start between 13.5 and 14.0 (depending on the version of M1 0W40 used) with no other significant contamination and a fairly short OCI. Looks like shear to me (all the way down to a mid-range 30, no less).

BMWTurboDzl · May 17, 2011

wlyszkow said:
To get VW 504/507 or C30 there must be almost NO VII improvers

How do you know this?

wlyszkow · May 17, 2011

My mistake - here you have TWS after 1k mi: http://www.pimanracing.net/blackstone/oil_04_2010_09.gif

wlyszkow · May 17, 2011

Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

wlyszkow said:
To get VW 504/507 or C30 there must be almost NO VII improvers

How do you know this?

I read somewhere that it was critical to VW new TDI high pressure pupms - with lots of VII improvers oils would shear down very quickly = form sludge from improvers + stop protecting engines - especially used longlife like 20k miles or more.
VW 504/507 mixed with MB229.51 seem to be the most demanding for low-saps oil currently that is why I can't wait to do UOA on AEL in my Opel ;-) although I'm not sure if UOA on 2-3k mi (like I always do for testing) would be representative for longlife oil...

Craig in Canada · May 17, 2011

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Oil shear is really an over stated issue with most motor oils today and it shouldn't deter anyone from choosing a high VI oil, a good example of which would be M1 0W-40 with it's VI of 185.

I concede that unproven fear of oil shear may be over-stated, but repeated evidence of a high degree of shearing is not. I did not say "omg! 0W40 will shear because of the spread!". I said "I have observed measured shearing of M1 0W40 even over short OCIs", and I'm not alone. It's one of the few "cons" against M1 0W40.

If I wanted a mid-range 30 in my engine instead of a 40, that's what I would have filled it with in the first place (and expected it to stay in grade). If I chose a light 40 then that's what I want.

Along with viscosity reduction, I wonder what happens to the HTHS post-shear if it was measured. I recall people indicating that they achieve higher fuel economy with M1 0W40 over GC - that may provide some insight into the answer right there.

Amsoil 5w30 European Formula any good?

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