Amsoil 5w-40 for VW 502 Application

[Paralysisbyanalysis]

I’m trying to decide which is the best oil for my Audi Q7 requiring VW 502 oil. Based on my interpretation of the Amsoil data sheet attached, the EFM variant is the only one that has the actual VW 502 approval. The AFL version is “recommended for applications requiring VW 502” but doesn’t say it has the actual approval.

Can anyone shed some light on this? I know one is full SAPS and the other isn’t. I’m not sure what level of SAPS is most beneficial for my application (3.0T supercharged).

@Pablo can you chime in from Amsoil’s perspective?

I appreciate it!

For now I’m not considering other oils, I’ve always gone between Motul and Amsoil for my vehicles and I intend on staying in those two camps.

 

[Zee09]

Welcome aboard...
With a member name like that you must be an engineer...

 

[Pablo]

I’m trying to decide which is the best oil for my Audi Q7 requiring VW 502 oil. Based on my interpretation of the Amsoil data sheet attached, the EFM variant is the only one that has the actual VW 502 approval. The AFL version is “recommended for applications requiring VW 502” but doesn’t say it has the actual approval.

Can anyone shed some light on this? I know one is full SAPS and the other isn’t. I’m not sure what level of SAPS is most beneficial for my application (3.0T supercharged).

@Pablo can you chime in from Amsoil’s perspective?

I appreciate it!

For now I’m not considering other oils, I’ve always gone between Motul and Amsoil for my vehicles and I intend on staying in those two camps.

EFM is what I would go with. Less $ too. AFL has some advantage at holding strong as an SAE 40.

 

[Kalle.J]

C3 oil is primarily for vehicles with exhaust particulate filter.

 

[Paralysisbyanalysis]

EFM is what I would go with. Less $ too. AFL has some advantage at holding strong as an SAE 40.

Appreciate the response! Does EFM not hold to a SAE 40?

 

[Pablo]

Appreciate the response! Does EFM not hold to a SAE 40?

It does but extended drains bring the viscosity down a bit

 

[JavierH19]

Welcome aboard...
With a member name like that you must be an engineer...

Or one of those stock trader for a living guys.

 

[JavierH19]

In before an hpl or m1 0w-40 comment.

 

[Paralysisbyanalysis]

Welcome aboard...
With a member name like that you must be an engineer...

Guilty as charged

 

[Cujet]

Right or wrong, I put little faith in certifications and qualifications of motor oil. Instead, I'd much rather know the additive package of the oil, the base stock, the TBN, the viscosity at various temperatures, the pour point, the HTHS and so on.

To many of us, it is pretty obvious that when using the manufacturer's spec, heck, even the oil they directly sell, and by following the OLM or published oil change intervals, one stands a non zero risk of a sludge'd up, varnished up, worn out timing chain, stuck piston ring experience, or some variant thereof.

My Jaguar has an 18,000 mile OCI, with a special 0W-20 Ti infused oil as an attempt at keeping the timing chain alive. You can imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth, when chains and bearings fail on these stupidly expensive engines. It comes as no surprise that a better choice is a more robust oil with adequate ZDDP, a healthy TBN, an HTHS well into the mid 3's and up, and 5000 mile oil change intervals.

Following the BMW requirements to the letter:

Again, I'd choose the oil with the better additive package, and likely the one with the higher HTHS.

VW is famous for strictly requiring a specific, non robust oil, the PD engines come to mind, then "allowing" oh, say, a 507.00 oil in future publications. After innumerable engines suffered unnecessary and predictable failures. A great number of us moved to Mobil 1, 5W-40 TDT in an attempt at using a more robust oil. Worked out very well.

 

[Paralysisbyanalysis]

It does but extended drains bring the viscosity down a bit

I usually stick to a 5000 miles OCI, at most I push to 7500. I feel like EFM would be fine at those intervals. Thoughts?

 

[Pablo]

I usually stick to a 5000 miles OCI, at most I push to 7500. I feel like EFM would be fine at those intervals. Thoughts?

Perfect.

 

[Paralysisbyanalysis]

Right or wrong, I put little faith in certifications and qualifications of motor oil. Instead, I'd much rather know the additive package of the oil, the base stock, the TBN, the viscosity at various temperatures, the pour point, the HTHS and so on.

To many of us, it is pretty obvious that when using the manufacturer's spec, heck, even the oil they directly sell, and by following the OLM or published oil change intervals, one stands a non zero risk of a sludge'd up, varnished up, worn out timing chain, stuck piston ring experience, or some variant thereof.

My Jaguar has an 18,000 mile OCI, with a special 0W-20 Ti infused oil as an attempt at keeping the timing chain alive. You can imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth, when chains and bearings fail on these stupidly expensive engines. It comes as no surprise that a better choice is a more robust oil with adequate ZDDP, a healthy TBN, an HTHS well into the mid 3's and up, and 5000 mile oil change intervals.

Following the BMW requirements to the letter:

View attachment 175300

Again, I'd choose the oil with the better additive package, and likely the one with the higher HTHS.

Thank you for your feedback! Motul 8100 X-Cess Gen 2 and Amsoil AFL or EFM have very similar HTHS numbers at 3.8, 3.8, and 3.7 respectively. Is 0.1 enough to make a difference? I’m leaning towards no.

 

[Kalle.J]

Right or wrong, I put little faith in certifications and qualifications of motor oil. Instead, I'd much rather know the additive package of the oil, the base stock, the TBN, the viscosity at various temperatures, the pour point, the HTHS and so on.

If you know euro ACEA classes and MB specs you get almost all of that information. Base and addpack can be a bit tricky, not even Amsoil is 100% transparent with that.

 

[Cujet]

Thank you for your feedback! Motul 8100 X-Cess Gen 2 and Amsoil AFL or EFM have very similar HTHS numbers at 3.8, 3.8, and 3.7 respectively. Is 0.1 enough to make a difference? I’m leaning towards no.

You are welcome. I'd say no. Although it might be a consideration if other numbers follow. The viscosity at 100c also being higher, for example. That would be attractive to me here in S. Florida.

 

[Cujet]

If you know euro ACEA classes and MB specs you get almost all of that information. Base and addpack can be a bit tricky, not even Amsoil is 100% transparent with that.

True, but we can make a few guesses. If we see a pour point in the (F) -30° range, it is probably an AN base stock, if it is not a group II cheap oil. If the pour point is down around mid -40°'s it could be a Group III blend and if it is around -60°, it may be a PAO based oil. Not hard and fast, but might also help in making a choice. I tend to like AN based oils and PAO.

 

[kschachn]

Right or wrong, I put little faith in certifications and qualifications of motor oil. Instead, I'd much rather know the additive package of the oil, the base stock, the TBN, the viscosity at various temperatures, the pour point, the HTHS and so on.

To many of us, it is pretty obvious that when using the manufacturer's spec, heck, even the oil they directly sell, and by following the OLM or published oil change intervals, one stands a non zero risk of a sludge'd up, varnished up, worn out timing chain, stuck piston ring experience, or some variant thereof.

My Jaguar has an 18,000 mile OCI, with a special 0W-20 Ti infused oil as an attempt at keeping the timing chain alive. You can imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth, when chains and bearings fail on these stupidly expensive engines. It comes as no surprise that a better choice is a more robust oil with adequate ZDDP, a healthy TBN, an HTHS well into the mid 3's and up, and 5000 mile oil change intervals.

Following the BMW requirements to the letter:

View attachment 175300

Again, I'd choose the oil with the better additive package, and likely the one with the higher HTHS.

VW is famous for strictly requiring a specific, non robust oil, the PD engines come to mind, then "allowing" oh, say, a 507.00 oil in future publications. After innumerable engines suffered unnecessary and predictable failures. A great number of us moved to Mobil 1, 5W-40 TDT in an attempt at using a more robust oil. Worked out very well.

There’s a problem with the engine there, not the oil.

Or the owner. Or BMW. Still not the oil.

 

[Pablo]

There’s a problem with the engine there, not the oil.

Or the owner. Or BMW. Still not the oil.

That was more or less the point that it was BMW recommending an oil and OCI. Happened with Toyota and MB. But who knows what really happened in such a picture

 

[edyvw]

Right or wrong, I put little faith in certifications and qualifications of motor oil. Instead, I'd much rather know the additive package of the oil, the base stock, the TBN, the viscosity at various temperatures, the pour point, the HTHS and so on.

To many of us, it is pretty obvious that when using the manufacturer's spec, heck, even the oil they directly sell, and by following the OLM or published oil change intervals, one stands a non zero risk of a sludge'd up, varnished up, worn out timing chain, stuck piston ring experience, or some variant thereof.

My Jaguar has an 18,000 mile OCI, with a special 0W-20 Ti infused oil as an attempt at keeping the timing chain alive. You can imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth, when chains and bearings fail on these stupidly expensive engines. It comes as no surprise that a better choice is a more robust oil with adequate ZDDP, a healthy TBN, an HTHS well into the mid 3's and up, and 5000 mile oil change intervals.

Following the BMW requirements to the letter:

View attachment 175300

Again, I'd choose the oil with the better additive package, and likely the one with the higher HTHS.

VW is famous for strictly requiring a specific, non robust oil, the PD engines come to mind, then "allowing" oh, say, a 507.00 oil in future publications. After innumerable engines suffered unnecessary and predictable failures. A great number of us moved to Mobil 1, 5W-40 TDT in an attempt at using a more robust oil. Worked out very well.

I have seen many BMW engines where owners fallowed manufacturers OCI and doesn’t look like that.
More likely, fallowing OCI and not using approved oil.

 

[Paralysisbyanalysis]

I have seen many BMW engines where owners fallowed manufacturers OCI and doesn’t look like that.
More likely, fallowing OCI and not using approved oil.

@Pablo So based on this, the AFL wouldn’t be a good choice for my application despite having a higher kinetic viscosity at 100°C than EFM because it technically isn’t approved? That seems strange. Can you explain how Amsoil handles the “approved” vs “recommended” process?