Amsoil 5W-30 ASL, 2003 Honda S2000, 6000 km

[INDYMAC]

These reports are from a F20C honda engine in a AP1 S2000. It was not significantly modified. They are from a friend who was asking my opinion, so it's not my car. I think it's a good case study on how UOA wear trending can help you determine the health of your equipment.

Toromont Cat Fluids Analysis Labs

Code:
ASL 5W-30 AFL 5W-40

100K km 94K km

6K km 6K km

1qt MU 0 MU

10-2011 9-2010



Fe 33 11

Cr 1 0

Mo 52 10

Al 7 2

Cu 5 5

Pb 15 1

Sn 3 2

Ti 0 0

Ni 0 0

Ag 0 0

Si 8 20

Na 7 39

K 2 2

Zn 688 968

Mg 13 11

P 644 989

Ba 0 0

Soot 0 0

Sulfate BP 55 19

Oxidation 59 19

Nitration 11 13

cSt@100C 9.86 11.73

Antifreeze Neg Neg

Fuel%
Water Neg Neg


The engine was rebuilt last summer due to a main bearing failure.

 

[Falken]

Looking at this I'd say the Amsoil is flushing out wear materials from the bearing failure.

You'll only know the health of the engine if you do a UOA again to see if it is trending lower, or run another 6k, then do a UOA on the following fill after that.

It is too bad you didn't do two 100km back to back runs of PYB before installing the Amsoil, this report would have given you more conclusive results off the bat.

 

[INDYMAC]

These reports were for the two years prior to the bearing failure. I'm sure he will send me UOA's for the rebuilt engine next fall. Hopefully, all will be good.

 

[bigjl]

So it used 5w30 but didn't use any 5w40.

I wonder if it would have had the bearing failure if it had continued with 5w40.

I am not experienced at reading UOA, and rely on the comments like those by Blackstone and more knowledgable forum members.

But do the first seven variables are higher with the 5w30 apart from one that is identical.

What does this indicate in relation to how well the oil is protecting the engine.

I would have stuck with 5w40 or 0w40 myself.

Thanks for posting the UOA.

 

[cp3]

Thanx for sharing.

Would be nice to see one last year before the rebuild. That is a fairly dramatic change for sure. Makes some of the reactions to a few PPM swing that are posted here seem kinda silly.

 

[tig1]

Main bearing failure with 60K miles on the engine and the wear metals didn't show it coming? What's with that? All metals are in the normal range.

 

[aquariuscsm]

S2000`s spec 10W30. I wouldn`t have gone to a 5W30. I`d never go thinner than spec.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
So it used 5w30 but didn't use any 5w40.

I wonder if it would have had the bearing failure if it had continued with 5w40.

I am not experienced at reading UOA, and rely on the comments like those by Blackstone and more knowledgable forum members.

But do the first seven variables are higher with the 5w30 apart from one that is identical.

What does this indicate in relation to how well the oil is protecting the engine.

I would have stuck with 5w40 or 0w40 myself.

Thanks for posting the UOA.


While the B/S analysis is fine, don't reply on their comments.

Was there a bearing failure? I did not see that in the posts, maybe I missed it.

 

[BillyTheKid]

Any more history on the car? Was it ever run very low on oil a time or two? Bearing failure usually comes from something else, not normal in a fine running engine with sufficient oiling. Did it detonate while beating on it, was there clogging in oil passages, oil pump failure, etc? There has to be more to the story.

Oh no, maybe it was that horrible Amsoil stuff??? LOL just kidding on that comment.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I would be more than cautious about installing a long-life/high detergency oil in a 'race tuned' 8000rpm engine though brearing failue would be more of a G- related starving/foaming mechanical carbon interference issue. Also, I would hope (s)he ran the large JDM OE filter and not the fram-sourced undersized honda service unit.

 

[INDYMAC]

There is a lot more to the story. It was a preowned car that he bought from someone he knew about 3 years ago. It had some varnish build-up on the valvetrain, which he cleaned up. He used an aftermarket oil pan with baffles. I believe he did a short run of RL oil before the AFL, but no UOA. He had used some Lubrimoly additive at some point, but I'm not sure when. Shell V-Power fuel with ocassional RL fuel additive. I don't think he ever ran low on oil. He said he did have the 4 hole oil jet bolts when he tore it down.

Although he did ocassionally track the car, he says he drives like a grandma otherwise. He believes it was oil starvation on a high G left turn at the track that brought the onset of the problems. And that would correlate with the ASL UOA. The actual bearing failure occurred during the next oil fill.

I don't think viscosity or oil brand had anything to do with the failure. But I guess anything is possible.

 

[INDYMAC]

He used the Honda S2000 oil filter, 15400-PCX-004.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Main bearing failure with 60K miles on the engine and the wear metals didn't show it coming? What's with that? All metals are in the normal range.


Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Major fretting/rubbing wear metals are in the filter pleats not in the oil - a uoa wont show this - but I see the bad trending - if 2 data points mean anything (Not Really). UOA show chemical wear (etching) and "normal" sloughing wear.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
He used the Honda S2000 oil filter, 15400-PCX-004.
Thats either the JDM Tokyo-Roki or the USA Filtec - either which should be good. The large, squat Subaru roki filter is a good choice too with its high 23 psiD bypass.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Sound like the new pan didnt control windage properly. Again - no fresh long life oils for racing - the detergency competition is too high (DP/EP >2)

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Sound like the new pan didnt control windage properly. Again - no fresh long life oils for racing - the detergency competition is too high (DP/EP >2)


Seems to work fine for the droves of race teams using M1 0w40......

 

[steve20]

I can't admit I may agree with Arco-so let's just say I came up with the idea first, and posted it when I had time. I think the aftermarket oilpan may be the culprit

 

[INDYMAC]

Originally Posted By: steve20
I can't admit I may agree with Arco-so let's just say I came up with the idea first, and posted it when I had time. I think the aftermarket oilpan may be the culprit


This has been mentioned by a respected Honda Tech on another forum as well. The owner re-installed the baffled oil pan on the rebuilt engine. So I guess we'll find out.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Was it a stock pan and windage tray but with a welded on T "box" at the bottom add a Litre or so capacity? This should not be an issue if the build was correct in all other ways. Somtiumes there is junk in the crank after machining and it got to be brushed and flushed thouroughly. Of course same with the block.