Amsoil 10w40 MCV - BMW K1300GT

[burning1]

Here's the first UOI for my K1300GT. Factory service interval is set at 6000 miles. I intend to have a UOI run at every scheduled service interval, and every recommended re-test interval, as per the results of the UOI.

I intend to run a 12000 mile extended drain interval, UOA results permitting.

The K1300GT has a 3.5 liter total oil capacity, and takes 10w40 weight oil. I broke this engine in on Highway 84 and Skyline (popular motorcycle roads in the California Bay Area,) intentionally accelerating hard and engine braking, as per the MotoMan Approach.

The factory fill was scheduled to be changed out at 600 miles, but was actually changed at 800 miles due to the holidays (my oil guy wouldn't answer his phone on Christmas day. Go figure.

The factory fill was exchanged for Amsoil 10w40 MCV Motorcycle Oil - this contradictory to MotoMan's recommendations.

Here are the comments from the Oil Analysis:

Quote:
Data flagged for observation only; Copper is at a MODERATE LEVEL; COPPER is most likely LEACHING into the oil via the OIL COOLER core tubing. This COMMENTS typically DOES NOT REQUIRE MAINTENANCE ACTION unless there is evidence of COOLANT in the oil; Piston metal is at a MODERATE LEVEL; Viscosity is SLIGHTLY LOW; Oil is suitable for continued use. Re-sample in 3,500 miles or 65 hours.


The viscosity grade of the oil has degraded slightly below 40 weight, and is now near the top end of the 30 weight viscosity range. Although a little low, the oil is still within an acceptable viscosity for this engine.

Not currently concerned about the piston wear metals - they may be remnants of the initial break in (about .25 liters of the factory fill are still in the engine. An oil change never removes everything.) Or, they engine may still be wearing in. Additional UOAs will help identify their source.

I'll take another sample at 9600 miles and post the results.

 

[Scienceman]

Why dont you just have it changed?

 

[BigCahuna]

After reading the test results I would change the filter , top it off and go a while longer. The tbn numbers show you can do that.Be interesting to see if the copper and iron numbers come down.,,

 

[BalancePoint]

I don't think you'll comfortably get to 12,000 miles in that engine with this oil. The viscosity won't hold up. Since you stated you'd let UOA be your guide, it's a moot point in any case. I can't argue with your strategy, I just have a hunch the analysis will indicate that you can't push past 7500 miles or so before being concerned about the viscosity. I'd be glad to be proven wrong. I have a K1200R so any UOA involving wedge-K motors interests me.

 

[burning1]

Sorry for the slow response.

If it's avoidable, I'd rather not change the filter on this bike earlier than necessary. The K1300GT wedges the oil filter directly behind the kickstand bracket. Removing the filter means removing the stand.

The engine currently has 8300 miles on the clock. I've started racing a Suzuki GS500 and accepted a weekend job to help finance it, so I probably won't be racking up the mileage on the beemer as fast as normal. Next scheduled UOA is at 9600 miles, so expect to see another result in a month or so.

I've added approximately half a liter of oil to the bike so far. Based on the current consumption rate, I expect that it will make it to 12,000 miles without any additional make-up oil.

 

[burning1]

Troy: I have a few reasons for UOA rather than changing the oil.

The first reason is simply curiosity. We spend a lot of time talking about oil, but I'm very interested in seeing exactly what's going on in the engine, and with the oil.

The second reason is convenience. The K1300GT uses a dry sump lubrication system, which means that I have to drain the oil both from the sump, and from a separate reservoir. Likewise, the oil filter is a pain to replace, requiring removal of some bodywork, and of the kickstand.

In contrast, UOA is trivially easy on this bike. The oil reservoir is located directly under the seat, and a sample can be taken using a cheap pharmacy syringe.

Cost and resale value also play into it. UOA costs about $27, where a full oil change usually ends up costing me $70 between the filter and the Amsoil. Even if I wasn't using UOA, I'd run group IV or Group V synthetic... And if I switched to Shell Rotella synthetic, I still wouldn't be saving much money with the swap, especially when we consider the price of my time. When I'm not racing, I typically ride enough to need an oil change every 6 weeks.

For resale value: I expect to put a lot of miles on this bike before I sell it (~100,000 miles.) It would be nice to sell it with a full set of UOA reports, showing that the engine is in good condition.

 

[GoldwingGuy]

Why would you run any oil for 12,000 miles in a motorcycle? The oil is already getting thin.

 

[Mackelroy]

I'm a believer in the first 10,000 mile to utilize frequent changes and rid all that metal, then look at extended intervals, if that's the goal.

Viscosity doesnt matter much if full of aluminum. Cam chains by pass any filtering mechanism , straight from tranny to cam lobes.

 

[burning1]

Originally Posted By: GoldwingGuy
Why would you run any oil for 12,000 miles in a motorcycle? The oil is already getting thin.


Remember that the service manual does not specify a synthetic fill on this bike. If you use a typical 10w40 mineral oil with VIIs, the oil would probably be another point or four lower lower at the 6000 mile mark.

Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
Viscosity doesnt matter much if full of aluminum. Cam chains by pass any filtering mechanism , straight from tranny to cam lobes.


As far as I know, the fine aluminum isn't really a hazard for the engine - it's the coarse aluminum that appears during break-in that tends to harm the bearing surfaces.

Think of it this way - a polish is simply a paste saturated with fine solids.

 

[Norm Olt]

You could always just drain the old oil at 9-10K and refill with any quality (i.e. "non-boutique") 10W-40 that meets BMW's spec (last time I looked they didn't require 100% synthetic) for a couple thousand miles. Filtration is probably not a question with fresh oil.

I seriously doubt that your engine will ever "KNOW" (or SHOW) the difference...

Nor might you?

Cheers!

 

[Jim 5]

This bike permits a 15w-50 or a 10w-40 and fuel dilutes a fair amount. If you are going to do a 6k OCI, I think the Amsoil is up to it, as it's known to be a very good oil. Around here in Canada, it's about $15/L.

Instead, I run a 15w-40 HDEO in mine and I suck it out of the dry sump every 2k miles or so with an oil extractor (and drop the extra .5L out of the engine sump at that time). I change the filter every 6k miles. Rotella HDEO meets the specs laid out in the owner's manual if you read it carefully.

It's so easy to do this and given the fuel dilute and shared sump clutch junk, this gives me the comfort I need. I'm not a short OCIer, but in this case I do so. If I was going to run the full 6k miles, I'd likely choose the Amsoil as you do. I just think I get better (or at the very least equal) protection cheaper doing what I do.

 

[burning1]

Originally Posted By: Norm Olt
You could always just drain the old oil at 9-10K and refill with any quality (i.e. "non-boutique") 10W-40 that meets BMW's spec (last time I looked they didn't require 100% synthetic) for a couple thousand miles. Filtration is probably not a question with fresh oil.

I seriously doubt that your engine will ever "KNOW" (or SHOW) the difference...

Nor might you?

Cheers!


I'm a little OCD about my oil to be honest, but I'm curious about what a Group II oil would do in this bike. So... Perhaps we'll see.

I sent another sample in at 10,300 miles - about 700 miles past the inspection recommended by the dealer. We should have another UOA report shortly.

 

[burning1]

Here is sample number 2, taken at 10,300 miles. I've been pretty busy, so this sample is about 700 miles past-due.

The oil came out of the sump looking almost black. Anyone judging the oil by color would have thrown it out long ago.

I'm a little concerned about the increasing aluminum content. I somewhat expected it to level off... Is the engine still in the process of breaking in at 10,000 miles?

Overall, I'm very happy with the results. TBN is still looking alright, very low silicone contamination indicating good air-filtering. Viscosity is only down a tenth of a point after 4300 additional miles.

Burn rate has been relatively low. When this sample was taken, I had added .5 liters of oil to the sump, and was at the low oil level mark on the dipstick, indicating a burn rate of approximately 1 liter per 10,000 miles.

I may change my plans slightly going forward. I'm interested in comparing my Amsoil experience to some other oils; I may throw in a quality Group II (non-synthetic) motorcycle oil, and sample at more frequent intervals (1000, 3000, 6000 miles) followed by a fill of Shell Rotella T synthetic.

 

[Steve S]

Run conventional oil, the syn oil and uoas are costing more than any benefit you will be receiving.

 

[Jim 5]

RTS in a 5w-40 will shear faster than the regular rotella 15w-40. The aluminum in your sample is likely from the clutch plates sliding within the aluminum clutch basket to clamp and release.

 

[cycleman]

The K & R series BMW have a dry clutch, not an oil bath type clutch. The clutches in these bikes are basically the same as car clutches.

 

[mshuell]

Greetings,

The R bikes (air/oil cooled boxer twins) have an automotive type dry clutch. The K bikes (water cooled 4 or 3 cylinder) have a shared engine/transmission/clutch oil system. They are not the same. Does it make a difference in practice? Not that I've ever noticed

Best Wishes,

Mark Shuell
1996 BMW R1100RT

 

[KernelK]

Originally Posted By: mshuell
Greetings,

The R bikes (air/oil cooled boxer twins) have an automotive type dry clutch. The K bikes (water cooled 4 or 3 cylinder) have a shared engine/transmission/clutch oil system. They are not the same. Does it make a difference in practice? Not that I've ever noticed

Best Wishes,

Mark Shuell
1996 BMW R1100RT


This statement is incorrect. The K bikes all had dry clutches and separate gearbox oil. The newer K series with the slant four engine design since around 2005 were designed with wet clutches and shared engine/gearbox lube. To repeat, all the K model brick motors were dry clutch.

 

[Craig750]

I would run some Rotella 15w40 mutligrade and see how it performs, same miles same lab. That Amsoil doesn't look good for the reputation it is supposed to have.

 

[burning1]

Mark,

I personally haven't noticed a difference, but a friend of mine has reported that the dry clutches tend to retain more heat when slipped, leading to problems in situations that require a lot of clutch modulation.

Clutch maintenance is much more difficult on the dry clutch longitudinal engines than the wet clutch transverse engines... Though that's more of a engine/transmission design issue than a wet/dry issue.

Wet clutches also have wet throw-out bearings, which tend to last longer than the dry/greased type. Good, because it can be unsafe to take a bike out of gear at a lot of stop-lights.

If it means anything... Ducati, a brand known for it's dry clutches, has been moving to wet clutches on most of their super high performance engines.