Amsoil 0w-20 ASM, 2005 Acura TL 6MT 6000 miles

[rogsoil]

Hello to all

Asking for comments, notably regarding nickel ...

Background:

Vehicle is a 2005 Acura TL equipped with 6 speed MT. Location: Calif.

Oil: Amsoil 0W-20 ASM
Filter: Napa Gold


Driven fast when on the highway (traffic flow at 75-80 MPH or >), with some v-tech moments, but not floored when starting from stop sign or light.
Car may sit in a garage for few days, then may be used for several days in a row in highway/town environment (with some limited bumper to bumper traffic).

I warm-up the engine for an average of 2 minutes; that's after starting a stone cold engine. Thereafter, I drive conservatively until engine reaches operating temp.

From left (most recent) to the right, the Analysis Table refers to the following oils:

Amsoil ASM 0W-20, Amsol xl 7500 5W-20, Havoline SM 5W-20, Havoline SM 5W-20

Thanks ... please click on the link ( hope it works)

oil_analysis
_

 

[Steelhead]

with the nickel questionable, i would run the same oil again for 6k as before to track nickel and copper.

with your TL still on warranty, i would religiously stick with Honda's oil change service mileage regime and document all with receipts.
an engine in these is shockingly expensive for what one gets from JA in the crate

no need for 2 minute warm up in these. 30 seconds for oil pressure to stabilize and drive off slowly, under 60 and no WOT for the first 5 miles until temps in the alum. block/head stabilize
long warm ups in park only dump fuel into the oil

 

[buster]

You need more samples before worrying about the Ni. Can't really determine much from one UOA. Looks like this engine will wear well with any brand of oil as the numbers are pretty consistant.

 

[02zx9r]

run another fill of this and compare the results, if the same or getting worse try another brand, but I doubt it will be bad, should only get better

 

[JoeFromPA]

0w20 in this engine? Isn't a 30 weight more warranted?

Also, unless I'm completely off my mark there aren't any traditional "v-tec" moments in the TL V6....it's a Single Overhead Cam design, so you are always experiencing "the v-tec".

On a car like mine, a Double Overhead Cam, the car actually switches at 5800 rpms to the second cam, which is meant for high rpms, and provides that classic "v-tec" feel as if a turbocharger just kicked in

Also, agree with others: Don't warm-up the car for 2 minutes. I notice you said you live in CA...if you are in a warm climate, just start the car and drive off in no more than 30 seconds (I usually think of it as start the car, put your seatbelt on, adjust radio, and drive). 30 seconds is plenty down to about 45-50 degrees fahrenheit. Below that, maybe 60 seconds. Even when freezing temps are reached, it is better for the car to be driven at very low-load conditions than to idle.
Joe

 

[dnewton3]

I agree on warm up.

The quickest way to proper operating temps is to drive with moderation soon after start up (perhaps 15-30 seconds).

Excessive idling just prolongs the wait to full temp, and presents more opportunity for fuel dilution, because until the engine is up to temp, the engine management system dumps more fuel in (sort of like the old "choke" settings).

 

[rogsoil]

Thanks for all the responses ...

Steelhead : I agree regarding oil changes; I change oil and filter before
OEM recommended intervals, and do have documentation.
I will also change my "warm up" habits; 30 sec it is.

buster: You are right; one sample is not enough to determine a
problem. There is also potential for lab error; but if level
is correct, and elevation persistent, rise in Ni levels would be
ominous.

02zx9r: That is the plan: run another fill and sample at 6000 miles,
perhaps a bit sooner. I use synthetic in hopes of increasing
OCI and in response to fuel dilution notable in some Honda Engines

JoeFromPA: The car is "specced" for 5W-20 by the manufacturer, and
given it is still under warranty, I am hesitant to challenge
that. V-tech (VTEC) is controlled via ECU signal, and at
about 4500 RPM a solenoid valve switches the "camshaft
profile" to allow for more aggressive valve management
and timing (Honda Patent). And yes, it is a very, very
noticeable "moment". Many DOHC systems (older) were
used for separate management of intake and exhaust valves.
I will change my warm-up habit.

dnewton3 I will shorten the warm-up period for the next OCI.


For duration of current OCI I will keep all "variables" same, except for the shorter warm up period. I am curious of the effect it will have on wear. This is far from controlled experiment, but closer than some.

Thanks

 

[rogsoil]

I was a bit disappointed at lack of comment from the Amsoil reps.

The two oils tested, the XL-7500 0W-20W and ASM 0W-20, while capable lubricants, did not seem to fare exceptionally well in this application. My vehicle has low miles and runs perfectly.

Noting an extensive discussion regarding the the Acura MDX, an ASM 0w-20 oil, and long OCI, perhaps the Amsoil is not the panacea for the Acura's V-6 high performance family of engines. Certainly not, when applied to the limits of oil's warranty coverage. Fuel dilution certainly seems to plays a role in this environment. An UOA from a WRX STi engine WRX STi and ASM 0w-20 has shown that under conditions of fuel dilution the TBN of ASM 0W-20 fell to 4.4; a value matched by Castrol Syntec 10W-40 with TBN = 4.6. Both runs were about 5000 miles. I don't know the TBN of the virgin Castrol Syntec but it probably starts lower than Amsol (?). I am pointing to this example because of common factor of fuel dilution and its apparent effect on the ASM oil's "longevity" (in terms of TBN) .

I will test current fill of Amsoil 0W-20 and reevaluate, but if situation does not improve than PP 0W-20 will get a chance to prove its worth (in my application).

Thanks for input.

 

[Pablo]

Actually I apologize for not seeing the UOA until now. Sometimes posts make it by my radar.

As the others have stated, I'm also not sure what to say about the Ni. Your other metals look great, and proportionally Al even went down and Sn is zero. Cr up from 1 ppm to 2 ppm may not mean anything, or wherever the Ni came from, the alloy also had Cr. You went longer and Cu is coming down.

Viscosity the best so far, and I don't see why this oil couldn't go 10K miles next OCI.

What type of improvement are you looking for?

 

[DmanWho]

I've noticed that you'll get more responses, if the analysis results are readily seen in the post.

 

[rogsoil]

Pablo, thanks for your response.

Ni, Cr are alloys that would be found in steel and point to piston rings and cylinder sleeves (?).

This particular family of Honda engines seem to run rich at start-up, a calculated move by honda to reduce emissions. High fuel environment, in turn, effects oil properties in general, and more so at the cylinder assembly level. The "diluted" oil may *possibly* cause increased wear. Again, that's just an "educated supposition".

While I am aware that TBN reduction is not linear, it does reflect oil's ability to withstand the insults from contaminants and combustion byproducts.
I would not venture to extend OCI to 10,000 miles without some evidence that this drop in TBN is not exponential (in my application).

I will reevaluate when next sample of 0W-20 ASL will be sent for analysis (at 5,000 miles), and in particular, look for relative effect of shorter run on TBN and metal levels.

What I expected from this oil is better protection at cylinder/piston assembly level, i.e. at or below average numbers for Ni and Cr (Blackstone scale relative to my application) ... Note that (barring lab error) the Ni of "6" represents 600% increase from baseline, and it is accompanied by an increase in Cr.

I did ask Blackstone to rerun the sample, to test for lab error, but they have already disposed of the sample.

 

[RI_RS4]

rogsoil,

I'd send it to Terry Dyson and get his reading on the report. It's on this sort of report that his interpretation can be invaluable.

 

[buster]

Yeah definitely run the oil again and send a sample to Terry. With one sample, not much can be determined.

 

[Pablo]

I agree, next run, get the sample to Terry - also send him this report at the same time so he can tie it together.

The reason I hesitated from assuming the Ni is from your rings is that there is no increase in Fe. Fe stayed about the same per mile and actually came down from your first two runs. Cr is also tracking miles. I'm not so sure you can fault a singular oil for singular spike in Ni.

B/S TBN of 4.2 at 6K miles, is just not that bad. If it was nearing one, then we should talk.