American system of government is the best in the world.

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J

J

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And here's my proof. Well ... Plato already knew
about it 3,000 years ago. According to Plato,
best of all possible governments is a
dictatorship with a philosopher in charge. The
next best is good aristocracy. Only middling is
democracy, and the worst of all governments are
bad aristrocracies, called oligarchies and
bad dictatorships called despotism.

Well, human beings are incorrigible and utterly
messed up, and we cannot achieve the higher
forms of government and definitely not Plato's
republic. %$#@ if I'm sharing my women.

We elect demagogues like Bill Clinton who could
be the second coming of Alcibiades, and we elect
people who yell "Yeagh" or have more special
interest campaign dollars and can run more
negative advertisements than his competition.
So, what kind of democracy do we get? We get
the bad kind of democracy which fortunately is
not one of the worst types of governments.

We basically get churn when it comes to our
elected officials, and this chaos and paralysis
just happens to be better than having Hitler in
charge.

So, since people will always be stupid, with
99% of the people feeling, believing and
thinking what Society, Religion and Corporate
America want them to feel, believe and think
(come on ... did you ever think why
money is all important and why the religious
leaders just happen to get rich for
doing nothing all day while you slave away at
your job like a dutiful and obedient drone?
Even the very words themselves are selected for
brain washing. Believing without questioning
is faith. Doing someone else's bidding without
questioning is obedience. Making sacrifices for
no reason is duty. Dying for no real reason
is honor.)

So, we're messed up and democracy works not
because its the best form of government but
because the better forms cannot be achieved by
idiots like us

crushedcar.gif


cheers.gif


Jae

[ January 30, 2004, 02:57 AM: Message edited by: J ]
 
J,

I agree with a lot of what you have to say, except for one point, that in my mind is the most important distinction of all.

We are not a democracy. We are a republic. There is a profound difference between the two.

We do not pledge to the flag that stands for a democracy, we pledge to the republic.

Dan

PS. Plato was an idiot. He never had a good grasp of human nature that bounded his utopian fantasies. For any society to work, it must take into account human nature.

[ January 30, 2004, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: Dan4510 ]
 
We are at a critical moment. Fully 50% of wage earners pay zero federal income tax and a good number of that 50% actually get an income from the IRS (EITC). Needless to say, but the 50% freeloaders are receiving a lot of other benefits, all paid for by the "evil rich" and shrinking other 50%.

Democracy starts to fail when the majority can use the power of the vote to rape the minority. Polticians that feed the envy and class warfare game (mostly "no tax cuts for the evil rich" democrats) are not worthy of your vote.

"In general the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give to the other." - Voltaire.

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill.

Keith.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dan4510:

We are not a democracy. We are a republic. There is a profound difference between the two.

We do not pledge to the flag that stands for a democracy, we pledge to the republic.
Click to expand...
That is so true, the word democracy does not show up in the constitution, or any other documents. But when you talk to people they think we live in a democracy. People are idiots!
 
And since we have implemented a corruptible, if not outright fraudulent voting machine system, we are no longer a representative democracy, we have essentially become a corporate owned dictatorship with a facade of democracy.
 
I have read several ...what? Opinions? That the happiest people in this world are the few remaining groups of hunter-gatherers. They don't worry about much, and don't spend but a fraction of their time looking for food. Of course, the earth can't sustain 6 or 7 billion hunter-gatherers, and hardly anyone would want to be one anyway.
The point of what I read(and I forgot who wrote it) is that government began when the food supply was put under lock and key.
If you think about it, it sounds true. Try to get something to eat- legally- without using money in some way. Even to go hunting or fishing requires money at some point, whether for a license, gun/ammunition/ fishing equipment, etc. We are forced to work for somebody if we want to eat.
In this country it's not as bad as in some others, true, but the average people are under the thumb of those above, whether or not we realize it.

[ January 30, 2004, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: MarkC ]
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dan4510:
J,

We are not a democracy. We are a republic. There is a profound difference between the two.

Dan

PS. Plato was an idiot. He never had a good grasp of human nature that bounded his utopian fantasies. For any society to work, it must take into account human nature.
Click to expand...
Hey Dan,

So the distinction would be between democracy
as was practiced for a brief period of time
in Athens and Republic which is characterized
by decisions made by elected officials?

cheers.gif


Jae
 
Jae,

The distinction is greater than that. Democracy in its most basic sense is mob rule. 51% of the vote determines what happens in society with no reference to founding documents or principles of operation. If 51% vote, its law.

A republic is based upon a founding document (constitution) that lays out rules of operation (checks and balances, due process, etc) and the government constantly must justify its use of authority thru a legal process. In other words, no taking of property or freedom without public judicial proceedings.

Ours is a government of law, not of men. Democracy in its most basic sense does not take into account human nature.

Despite mouthings to the contrary by everyone from news media to uneducated opinion spinners we are not a democracy.

Dan
 
"I didn't know we had a King. I thought we were an autonomous collective."

"Supreme executive power is derived by a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."

-Monty Python and the Holy Grail
 
What I think is kinda interesting is that so many people out there say something to the effect of "oh, let's just wait and see if the great experiment of democracy works. They're the youngest country in existence.." Or something like that.

Well, my thoughts on this are basically, "aren't we the OLDEST government currently in existence?". Granted, there are countries out there that are older (England for one), and there are forms of government out there that have been around for thousands of years (dictatorships, aristocracies...) BUT, how many CURRENT forms of government can say that their government has lasted for 228 years? Personally I can't think of any! If I'm wrong then I'll shut up. But, I think I'm right.

So, if this truely is the case, doesn't that NOT make us the great experiment but rather a model for other to learn from and build upon?

my .02

Mikie
 
quote:
"I didn't know we had a King. I thought we were an autonomous collective."

"Supreme executive power is derived by a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."

-Monty Python and the Holy Grail
Click to expand...
All I know is that having some watery tart throw a sword at you is no basis for a form of government!
smile.gif


That has to be the funniest movie ever made...
 
Jae,
Your post has me a bit confused, so I'm only gonna comment on the subject title. Yes, it is the best system there is. I believe though, the justice system has too many loopholes and criminals know how to take advantage of this flaws.

Rick
 
quote:
Originally posted by Drew99GT:
By defenition, we don't even live in a true democracy. Rather, a plutocracy, run by the educated and wealthy.
Click to expand...
I was thinking that it resembles an organized fascists plutocracy covered in the guise of an illusionary democratic republic.


"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
~ Benito Mussolini
 
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