America Is Back in the Factory Business

[NormanBuntz]

I wish America was back in the furniture and textile/apparel businesses. I've lived in Virginia and North Carolina for 32 years. I've seen furniture makers and textile companies leave the South in droves for Asia. On a basic level, it's plain sad. So many towns that are a shadow of what they were. I know the reasons, mostly the cost of doing business. But with that money the factories saved, consumers have had to compromise on the quality they get, especially furniture. If I can help it, I won't buy one stick of furniture that's made in Asia.

 

[PimTac]

I understand, but that is what happens when a college professor who never worked a day in his/her life in private industry gets a top job at the Treasury or federal reserve. And many top positions are filled with the like.

They spout what they learned at university, from professors themselves that never had a private industry job.

I have yet to hear a treasury or federal reserve senior official tell it like it is. A country builds wealth by exporting more than it imports. And a country declines economically by importing more than it exports.

Simple and plain. And no, I don't have a degree in economics, or accounting to know that if I make more than I spend, my individual economics is good. And if I spend more than I make, my individual economics are bad.
.

These people are borrowing $6 Billion every day to run things back in DC. $6 Billion!

They have no concept of budgeting or fiscal responsibility yet they hold the highest positions.

 

[SC Maintenance]

These people are borrowing $6 Billion every day to run things back in DC. $6 Billion!

They have no concept of budgeting or fiscal responsibility yet they hold the highest positions.

Given it will never be paid back anyway - why not.

Its like renting an apartment and getting notice you are evicted and need to move in 48 hours. Might as well have one last over the top party to remember.

 

[andrew_j]

I’d

It’s a start. 10% of the private sector, 800k jobs (which are numbers that get manipulated) don’t get people off the streets in places like Camden.

But it’s a start.

And a good strategic offset.

Hopefully they can do more repurposing of old decrepit locations, instead of plowing under farms. The other side of the balance is to recapitalize locations that were once used instead of ignoring those locations (and people) and destroying more land. Unfortunately some of such places are inhospitable.

Why would you want your labor from the streets of Camden or such a place?

 

[JHZR2]

I’d
Why would you want your labor from the streets of Camden or such a place?

You want people to have opportunity to have work, right? Every item bought from overseas is a production job someone doesn’t have, and another spiral into hopelessness. Not everyone becomes a doctor, lawyer, or professional something. Should they all be druggies hopped up on marijuana or fentanyl? Or have options for productive jobs?

No, not NJ… taken in less than three minutes in the way to Black Rifle Coffee in GA.

 

[Number_35]

You are just being silly. Wealth, or lack of it, is a by product of Economic practices. Personally I am a capitalist because capitalism has raised more people out of poverty than any other economic system. However, left untouched, the goal of a producer (more profits) is to gain power over consumers via monopoly, collusion, etc.
The beauty of Capitalism, at its best, is better quality with sufficient output at a "reasonable" price. Speaking to your wealth point, what is reasonable? The depends on which side of the deal you are on. The lure of profit drives business innovation. High producer profit is the price consumers pay for business efficiency. Is that good or bad?

Capitalism teaches us prices will tend to rise until consumption is reduced to an unacceptable point. High profits will spur innovation and development of viable alternatives.

Adam Smith, in his at the time radical study "Wealth of Nations", argued that a nation’s wealth is really the stream of goods and services that it creates. Today we call that gross national product.

I love Economics!

A jumble of random economic thoughts:

I would add the caveat that we need strong oversight of some sort to prevent collusion. Genuine competition must exist for capitalism to be beneficial to society at large.

As far as what price is reasonable, it's whatever price people are willing to pay. If you think new vehicle prices are too high, hold on to your old car for another year or two.

Quality theory tends to produce more ethical business practices - look at making your company still viable in 15 years.

If my defective product produces great profits next quarter, but kills a bunch of consumers over the next five years, that's not a good business model. If my product produces only moderate profits next quarter, but leads to higher customer satisfaction down the road, that's good business. (My point is that good business and good moral behaviour should not be in conflict.)

From the automotive world:

Should I produce an import-fighting economy car that can be sold profitably at a certain low price point, but in doing so compromise certain safety measures? No, Ford, add the plastic cap to the exposed bolts so the Pinto won't catch on fire if rear-ended.

 

[Number_35]

Why would you want your labor from the streets of Camden or such a place?

I'd like the people from the streets of Camden to at least have the opportunity to work for a better life. (Yes, I know that's idealistic - I've read J.D. Vance's Hillbilly Elegy.)

 

[Number_35]

The argument has often been made, especially pre-pandemic, that America's manufacturing jobs are gone, and aren't coming back. And anyway, the global-economy proponents say, the jobs are all automated anyway; they're all done by machines.

My response is that if the jobs are all done by machines, then the reduced labour costs in the 3rd world aren't a factor anyway, are they? And if not, where are the lower manufacturing costs coming from?

 

[JeffKeryk]

You want people to have opportunity to have work, right? Every item bought from overseas is a production job someone doesn’t have, and another spiral into hopelessness. Not everyone becomes a doctor, lawyer, or professional something. Should they all be druggies hopped up on marijuana or fentanyl? Or have options for productive jobs?

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No, not NJ… taken in less than three minutes in the way to Black Rifle Coffee in GA.

That's a key reason I bought a car built at the ex GM ex NUMMI plant in Fremont. I put my money into the local community when I can. Not everyone can be a lowly programmer like me.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

This is good.

We need more U.S.-based manufacturing. Honda makes cars in Marysville, Ohio.. I'm all for things being made here.

And Toyota (14 plants), BMW (for the X SUVs) and KIA (for the Telluride) and Hyundai and .... Taiwan Semicondutor in AZ ($40b)!

 

[JeffKeryk]

A jumble of random economic thoughts:

I would add the caveat that we need strong oversight of some sort to prevent collusion. Genuine competition must exist for capitalism to be beneficial to society at large.

As far as what price is reasonable, it's whatever price people are willing to pay. If you think new vehicle prices are too high, hold on to your old car for another year or two.

Quality theory tends to produce more ethical business practices - look at making your company still viable in 15 years.

If my defective product produces great profits next quarter, but kills a bunch of consumers over the next five years, that's not a good business model. If my product produces only moderate profits next quarter, but leads to higher customer satisfaction down the road, that's good business. (My point is that good business and good moral behaviour should not be in conflict.)

From the automotive world:

Should I produce an import-fighting economy car that can be sold profitably at a certain low price point, but in doing so compromise certain safety measures? No, Ford, add the plastic cap to the exposed bolts so the Pinto won't catch on fire if rear-ended.

Respectfully, here are a few comments on your thoughts...
Oversight: there is no pure capitalism. Oversight is necessary but becomes political. Tricky...
Reasonable price - Is my 1200 sq ft home worth $2M? Your definition is market price more than economic price. Where do the less affluent (poor?) people go? Is that reasonable?
Quality is more to gain market share than it is ethical. In capitalism, profit is the incentive, not ethics. Quality is only a path if it increases profit.
Defective products - Tobacco companies knew cigarettes caused cancer a long time ago. Drug companies and Doctors pushed narcotics.

Please understand, Capitalism is brutal. It is about winning and destroying your competition.

 

[Pablo]

Please understand, Capitalism is brutal. It is about winning and destroying your competition.

But the opposite is even worse. It's about keeping the masses down permanently and elites living well. Don't let the useful idiots fool you.

 

[PimTac]

Respectfully, here are a few comments on your thoughts...
Oversight: there is no pure capitalism. Oversight is necessary but becomes political. Tricky...
Reasonable price - Is my 1200 sq ft home worth $2M? Your definition is market price more than economic price. Where do the less affluent (poor?) people go? Is that reasonable?
Quality is more to gain market share than it is ethical. In capitalism, profit is the incentive, not ethics. Quality is only a path if it increases profit.
Defective products - Tobacco companies knew cigarettes caused cancer a long time ago. Drug companies and Doctors pushed narcotics.

Please understand, Capitalism is brutal. It is about winning and destroying your competition.

Personal responsibility plays a role here. Do I put my hand on a hot stove because there was no warning label telling me not to? Smoking is bad for you. Don’t take candy from strangers.

 

[JeffKeryk]

But the opposite is even worse. It's about keeping the masses down permanently and elites living well. Don't let the useful idiots fool you.

I have said many times I am a Capitalist because it has lifted more people out of poverty than any other economic system.
My point is, there is no pure Capitalism. There is a reason for it. Taken to its extreme, profit has no rules and no morals.

Capitalism is based on individual initiative and favors market mechanisms over government intervention, while socialism is based on government planning and limitations on private control of resources. Left to themselves, economies tend to combine elements of both systems. America is a perfect example. I forget the split, but remember things like public roads, public education, our Military and Police forces are examples of Socialism.

This is why eduction is important. A deeper understanding of the subject matter allows for a better solution.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Personal responsibility plays a role here. Do I put my hand on a hot stove because there was no warning label telling me not to? Smoking is bad for you. Don’t take candy from strangers.

Of course. Do Doctors, drug companies and tobacco companies have responsibility too? Companies are ultimately made up of people, right?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

People are spoiled to put it simply. They are taught that they can enjoy a perfect life. Parents spoil their children and react to any negative situation no matter how small. Compare two generations. In the 50’s and 60’s you would crash your bicycle and skin your knee. Mom would be more worried about your pants than your knee. We were raised tougher. Now, kids just stumble on the ground and parents panic.

This continues on through the growing years and into adulthood. Children are taught that they can be whatever they want to be. Unfortunately the schools and parents don’t tell them that effort is required. The result is a lot of college graduates that never took the education seriously and instead went for the social experience. Then they come out with a degree and a huge loan and realize they are going to have to work what they feel is a menial job.

There is no initiative. They expected life to be handed to them.

I live on a tertiary back road, more of a loop than a cul de sac, and when I come back from errands I see parents lined up in their closed cars and SUVs - no more than 100 yards from their protected, isolated houses - waiting to pick up their precious grade schoolers.

Get ready ...

I rode my one speed Schwinn bicycle over three miles to a " Little Red schoolhouse" ( built in 1859 in Tewksbury, Massachusetts) about 60 years ago. And loved every minute of the journey. Sometimes I had a transistor radio in the front basket playing pop music to keep me entertained along the way. In the snow I recall walking all bundled up in those high rubber toggle buckle boots and warm gloves -- usually off and in my coat pockets - since I was a "cool cat, daddy-o"

Ella Flemming School in Tewksbury, MA that I attended for a few years.

 

[Vil_Riker]

Call me sceptical but we have seen this before with solar manufacturing, the companies took billions in taxpayer money, fulfilled the minimum agreement then moved production to China. I don't like the idea of US taxpayer money in end effect subsidizing the Chicom economy. Pockets are being lined with that money.

We keep falling for the same lies by the same people again and again.

 

[Number_35]

But the opposite is even worse. It's about keeping the masses down permanently and elites living well. Don't let the useful idiots fool you.

Yes, to paraphrase Winston Churchill (who was speaking about democracy vs. other political systems, but could have been speaking about capitalism vs. other economic systems), "It is the worst possible system imaginable ... except for all the others."

 

[Number_35]

Respectfully, here are a few comments on your thoughts...
Oversight: there is no pure capitalism. Oversight is necessary but becomes political. Tricky...
Reasonable price - Is my 1200 sq ft home worth $2M? Your definition is market price more than economic price. Where do the less affluent (poor?) people go? Is that reasonable?
Quality is more to gain market share than it is ethical. In capitalism, profit is the incentive, not ethics. Quality is only a path if it increases profit.
Defective products - Tobacco companies knew cigarettes caused cancer a long time ago. Drug companies and Doctors pushed narcotics.

Please understand, Capitalism is brutal. It is about winning and destroying your competition.

What is an economic price vs. a market price? If the market price is not fair, who should determine what a fair price is?

As far as housing for the poor, I don't have good answers. Public housing has been largely a failure here. There are success stories, but they are sadly all too rare. The best solution I've seen is Habitat builds.

If good ethical behaviour drives profits, I'm all for it.

Agreed on the tobacco companies. They distributed cigarettes free to the soldiers in WWII, and got much of that generation hooked. I've heard that the tobacco was spiked with extra nicotine to hasten the physiological addiction.

 

[JeffKeryk]

What is an economic price vs. a market price? If the market price is not fair, who should determine what a fair price is?

As far as housing for the poor, I don't have good answers. Public housing has been largely a failure here. There are success stories, but they are sadly all too rare. The best solution I've seen is Habitat builds.

If good ethical behaviour drives profits, I'm all for it.

Agreed on the tobacco companies. They distributed cigarettes free to the soldiers in WWII, and got much of that generation hooked. I've heard that the tobacco was spiked with extra nicotine to hasten the physiological addiction.

Good question!
The market will never be fair; there is no fair, only winners and losers. Regardless of economic system. Economics speaks to allocation. The market sets prices, to the biggest degree. In Capitalism, if a given product has high prices; viable alternatives will emerge because of the freedom to innovate.

Market value is based on supply and demand (high level) and is the price or amount that someone is willing to pay in that market.
Economic value is the measurement of the benefit derived from a good or service to an individual or a company in that market.
Since economic value can be the maximum price that someone is willing to pay for a good or service, it can often be higher than market value.

Yes, the difference is subtle, but economic value will move market price over time; it generally requires investment (risk) to garner change.

Regarding price determination, sometimes ruling parties need to step in for the good of the people.