Amalgamated tdr-fl

[PDRig]

I have read some good things about this. My interest is to lower soot levels from combustion to extend life of dpf. Not necessarily add in the regen process. One ingredient is maganese. Any pitfalls from having manganese in the fuel system and it getting into the engine oil?

https://www.amalgamatedinc.com/prod...ic-tdr-fl-premium-summer-diesel-fuel-additive

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I can't speak about the manganese but when I had my 335d I used their product religiously because they used 2EHN as a Cetane booster. IIRC they have a product which is suitable for daily use rather than a cleaning/restoring product.

 

[K-Man]

Oh, I thought someone mistyped TL;DR.

 

[BigLou80]

since lubrication is my primary concern I just ordered some Exergy additive, I have been running hot shots secret which scores highly in lubrication testing and seems to have allowed for a nice long regen interval as well. Hopefully the more lubricious Exergy additive also makes for a nice long interval

 

[CleverUserName]

I have read some good things about this. My interest is to lower soot levels from combustion to extend life of dpf. Not necessarily add in the regen process. One ingredient is maganese. Any pitfalls from having manganese in the fuel system and it getting into the engine oil?

https://www.amalgamatedinc.com/prod...ic-tdr-fl-premium-summer-diesel-fuel-additive

I’ve used TDR-FL since 2018 and you likely read one of my threads or reviews.

Gary Pipenger is secretive about the formula, however every used oil analysis I’ve done has 30-50 ppm of manganese. I suspect it is from MMT which acts as a combustion improver in diesels according to Afton chemical company.

Soot % in my oil analysis is always very low, in fact the last 2 I did were < 0.1%. Lower than could be reliably measured.

 

[mattd]

I would give optilube XDP a try. If you want some extra lubricity on top of that, I suggest hot shots LX4

 

[PDRig]

I have some optilube. I’ll give that a try for a while.

 

[PDRig]

Curious with maganese oxide residue. Would I be trading soot levels for maganese oxide residue build up in the pdf.

http://www.meca.org/galleries/files/Schindler.pdf

http://www.meca.org/galleries/files/Sierra_Research_Auto_Industry_MMT_Report_August_2008.pdf

I had a buddy that was addicted to running octane booster in his every day driver and ended up replacing failing o2 sensors and had a heavy redish residue on both his o2 sensors and spark plugs.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Curious with maganese oxide residue. Would I be trading soot levels for maganese oxide residue build up in the pdf.

http://www.meca.org/galleries/files/Schindler.pdf

http://www.meca.org/galleries/files/Sierra_Research_Auto_Industry_MMT_Report_August_2008.pdf

I had a buddy that was addicted to running octane booster in his every day driver and ended up replacing failing o2 sensors and had a heavy redish residue on both his o2 sensors and spark plugs.

It is actually helpful with regards to DPF.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f9/2002_deer_human.pdf

https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2003-01-3145/

 

[PDRig]

It is actually helpful with regards to DPF.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f9/2002_deer_human.pdf

https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2003-01-3145/

I agree with you. It helps with combustion, and binds to the soot to make it more easily combusted, however was known to clog catalytic converters in gasoline engines. Now I know we are dealing with diesel and dpf system. Curious at what rate it would accumulate in the dpf, since the dpf is a soot/ash trap, it will definitely catch the ash left from the manganese as well.

For example using random numbers.

Diesel soot Ash accumulation equals 10mcg for example over a 100 mile stretch.

Given the exact same factors above, does diesel soot ash with the addition of the mmt equal 4mcg or does it equal 10?

This is after a complete regeneration would occur to see what the ash content is. Not soot generation from the engine, as I would naturally assume based on what I have read the soot would be lower using the additive.

Does the addition of the manganese take the place of the reduced soot resulting in similar dpf loading?

 

[CleverUserName]

It’s organic manganese, not elemental there is no ash component from MMT.

The myth about it fouling catalytic converters isn’t accurate and doesn’t harm emissions systems according to the EPA. I believe some sensors actually contain manganese oxide as part of their membrane.

You can’t eliminate ash trapped in the DPF with any additive. It must be removed for cleaning. Some ash may leave during normal operation if the particle size is small enough.

You can control soot with an additive like MMT. It will keep your EGR system much cleaner and prevent issues with placque formation in the EGR cooler, valves and intake manifold. The reduction of soot with extend DPF regen interval and a catalyst like MMT will assist in soot burn off during regeneration. The reduction of soot will also keep your oil significantly cleaner, and in my experience eliminate the need to control oil soot with bypass filtration.

I suggest you call Mr. Pipenger at amalgamated for detailed answers to your various questions. The product TDR-FL has been around for years, if it was causing all the issues your concerned about I believe we’d heave heard about it in threads or negative reviews.

Background: Clean Air Act Section 211(f)(4) Waiver​

In its decision on the use of MMT in the U.S., the Agency determined that MMT, added at 1/32 gpg Mn, will not cause or contribute to regulated emissions failures of vehicles. Some have expressed concerns that the use of MMT may harm on-board diagnostic equipment (OBD) which monitors the performance of emissions control devices in the vehicle. As of this time, the Agency believes the data collected is inconclusive with regard to OBD.

https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/epa-comments-gasoline-additive-mmt

I agree with you. It helps with combustion, and binds to the soot to make it more easily combusted, however was known to clog catalytic converters in gasoline engines. Now I know we are dealing with diesel and dpf system. Curious at what rate it would accumulate in the dpf, since the dpf is a soot/ash trap, it will definitely catch the ash left from the manganese as well.

For example using random numbers.

Diesel soot Ash accumulation equals 10mcg for example over a 100 mile stretch.

Given the exact same factors above, does diesel soot ash with the addition of the mmt equal 4mcg or does it equal 10?

This is after a complete regeneration would occur to see what the ash content is. Not soot generation from the engine, as I would naturally assume based on what I have read the soot would be lower using the additive.

Does the addition of the manganese take the place of the reduced soot resulting in similar dpf loading?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I agree with you. It helps with combustion, and binds to the soot to make it more easily combusted, however was known to clog catalytic converters in gasoline engines. Now I know we are dealing with diesel and dpf system. Curious at what rate it would accumulate in the dpf, since the dpf is a soot/ash trap, it will definitely catch the ash left from the manganese as well.

For example using random numbers.

Diesel soot Ash accumulation equals 10mcg for example over a 100 mile stretch.

Given the exact same factors above, does diesel soot ash with the addition of the mmt equal 4mcg or does it equal 10?

This is after a complete regeneration would occur to see what the ash content is. Not soot generation from the engine, as I would naturally assume based on what I have read the soot would be lower using the additive.

Does the addition of the manganese take the place of the reduced soot resulting in similar dpf loading?

If you scroll to slide 15 you'll se that there are no residual effects from MN.

I think a good question is whether or not the combustion byproduct eventually fouls up NOX sensors

 

[K-Man]

I bought new a 1997 Ford Escort wagon with the usual emissions devices. Ford had stern warnings in the owner's manual not to use MMT additives because of potential damage to the emissions system. I had been tempted to experiment with MMT until I saw that.

Not saying the EPA is wrong, but Ford's engineers must have known something.

 

[PDRig]

In a gasoline engine, high concentrations of mmt with create orange soot that will trash your cat and sensors similar to what lead will do. I have seen it first hand. The epa note above states at that specific concentration mmt is not harmful to emissions equipment.

I reached out to amalgamated as per cleverusername’s suggestion. I was assured the levels used in there formula are just enough to provide more complete combustion and will absolutely not leave a residue.