Am I too "Anti new car"?

[michaelc80]

Quote:

---

My pickup still has ign points. If it quits running 30 miles out in the desert loaded with ATV's I can get it running again unless it's something fatal.

Try that with a new truck

---

Most new trucks won't let you down like your old one clearly has. I remember working on vehicles with points-they were a pain compared to modern ignition systems.

I agree with the others-you're seeing the past through rose colored glasses. I enjoyed working on my 58 Power Wagon when I had it (315 A series Poly), but would I use it as a daily driver? No way.

As far as antilock brakes go, they may be worthless in the sand, however they're great in ice and snow. And I'd bet there are more people who drive in ice and snow then there are that drive in desert sand.

And I've been behind drivers with no cruise control and usually pass them because they can't hold a steady highway speed.

 

[H2GURU]

I think if you have a plan and can find a decent older vehicle with a good track record, with some major components that were over-engineered you could have a good candidate. Your costs per mile will be much lower in the long run. Up here it is amazing the number of 1975-1987 GM trucks, primarily 8cyl-8 foot bed, that survive, some quite nicely! I did own one of these and with their cast iron transmission housings and other such components, they are very rugged. These are simple to work on and it is a nice feeling to know that you can take a 20+ year old vehicle somewhere and there won't be any surprises as you did the work! That driving off the lot deal and vaporizing $5000.00 or so of your hard earned money is always a "killer" too. The old saying that the more options your car has, "all the more to go wrong" has certainly been true in my case. I would align myself with KESTAS' first paragraph and try to keep the "want" list to a minimum. Good Luck and keep that old iron rollin'.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

Me, I'm not anti new, but the gadgets make me crazy. They pile a lot of features into them. Would be nice if they offered a base-line model of every car made. Basic trim. Air, Power Steering, a radio, and hand roller windows. Standard transmission. I'd LOVE a five or six-speed Crown Vic! How cool would THAT be? Beyond that, that's it! Period. No anti lock, suspension control, no leather, nice durable plastic headliner instead of fuzzy cloth that falls on your head 3 years down the road. Easy to maintain. Put some of the so-called luxuries out of the budget in favor of goodies like Stainless Exhaust, mufflers and heat shields. improve the long-term wear items. Give us massive oil filters or by-pass filtration. Installed at the factory, these things would cost NOTHING. The car would be lighter, more fuel efficient, and more PRACTICAL, which is the term most of you anti-new guys seem to be reaching for. Just leave the fat off of it. One trim level such as I've described for every model. If I was Ford and GM, searching and reaching? Dammmed if I wouldn't be looking at it.

What would a Crown Vic equipped as such cost? 20K? Think someone looking at a $28,000.00 Camry or Infinity wouldn't take a look at a car like that? I sure as heck would. By all means, keep the upper trim levels, but also offer one with the fat trimmed OUT.

Happy New Year!!!

 

[Gene K]

Quote:

---

As far as antilock brakes go, they may be worthless in the sand, however they're great in ice and snow.

---

Incorrect! They are helpful in keeping a car going straight in ice. However in Snow they increase stopping distances for the same reason they do in sand. You can not build a "braking wedge" in front of the tire to stop you. If most companies did not believe you were stupid to be trusted with a on/off switch for the ABS this would not even be a issue.

The most effective vehicle for braking in Snow is a 4WD with a locked transfer case as this effectively equalizes brake balance while at the same time allowing you to lock both ends to build a "snow wedge".

Thankfully many new 4x4 vehicles now disable the ABS when in Low Range. Many other vehicles can have the ABS disabled by the removal of a fuse. If all else fails you can install a switch in the control circuit.

 

[Chris142]

Quote:

---

---

Most new trucks won't let you down like your old one clearly has. I remember working on vehicles with points-they were a pain compared to modern ignition systems.

would I use it as a daily driver? No way.

---

It's never let me down. It's been the truck to go get a friends broken down motorhome and pulled it down a dirt road to a paved highway because the tow trucks won't do dirt.

It was my daily driver from 98-02.

 

[Drew99GT]

I agree Chris.

Plus, new cars are looking more and more like freakin spaceships everyday. I realize the need for more aerodynamics and all but wow, you can take plastic moldings and ricer tail lights way too far!

 

[obbop]

Ponder, pleeze......

Let's say..... 1970s Chevy pick-up. Basic model. Find a rust-free unit in good overall condition. Bad engine and or transmission okay.

Buy cheap then spend to put a new engine and transmission combo in it. May need to hire a pro to ensure all the wiring is done correctly. Will need "brain boxes" etc. but it can be done and is done. Aftermarket even provides kits and stuff to ease the task.

At least the engine and transmission will have the latest technology while the truck itself has a more basic layout... for example, less stuff filling up the engine bay, easy access to under/behind the dash panel... just stick your head down there and a lotta' stuff can be reached.

One problem I have with newer vehicles is how many components are hidden behind trim panels, etc.; all in the name of looking pretty!!!!!!

Compared to the cost of a new vehicle I wonder if the cost of upgrading the propulsion system of an earlier vehicle: I chose a truck since I believe it would be easier and cheaper to convert than a car, would be cost effective.

Yeah.... there would likely be costs such as adapting the drive shaft but, would the cost be low enough to make the idea feasible and, perhaps, pleasingly cheaper than the cost of a new vehicle while achieving the "simplicity" of old such as the mentioned access to the innards of the vehicle?

Just pondering.

 

[Al]

Quote:

---

Find a rust-free unit

---

That's gonna' be the big problem

 

[andyd]

Hey Chris, ever had a condenser die on ya? or a coil?

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

---

Shannow, I hate fly by wire. Luckily, only '97 and newer Audis have it. Mine's got a good old throttle cable (despite being so overly "sophisticated").

Gary, would you be so kind and name a few of the sophisticated, failure-prone components of Audis? You should come up with stuff worth at least 15 grand, if what you stated was said in all sincerity.

---

The difference could probably be summed up by saying something like this: With an American car the forum members whine about design defects and how much of a pain and expense they are. Audi forums tend to whine about the design features and how much of a pain and expense they are.

 

[Brogy]

Quote:

---

Audi repairs, 1996-1999 (under warranty):

- glove box bulb
- transmission (nightmare experience with dealership)
- one shock
- transmission (partially under warranty, I think I paid $800?, -- poorly fixed the first time)

1999-2006 (no warranty):

coolant expansion tank replaced due to hairline cracks (ca $35)
gas pedal broke off (ca $25)
MAF sensor replaced (ca $250)
ICV replaced (ca $160)
ECU replaced (found used one for $200)
leaky ignition coil (found set of used ones for $25)
light switch ($90 -- rewired to use relays)
tie rod ends ($70)
valley pan gasket ($15)
EGR gasket ($7)
valve cover gaskets ($18)
1 battery ($75)
1 windshield ($400 -- insured)
power steering hose ($40)

---

All that was replaced on my corolla besides maintanence items was the alternator, the starter, the struts, valve cover gasket since you mentioned yours, waterpump, and a belt tensioner. And thats 13 years the car is going on. The transmission went bad? The gas pedal broke off? Although I will admit at least the stuff on your list weren't like the navigation system, sunroof, the power seats, the CC, just normal stuff any car has. Sucks about having to replace a windshield, im guessing that was vandalism?

I had a leased grand am, while not a high tech car, had EVERY technology whether I wanted it or not, including traction control that saw a lot of use with it's 140 horsepower econo engine (I swear I had to start that thing in like 3rd gear or else i'd be replacing tires every 2000 miles). that car was in the shop 3 times because of some ignition cut off thing. Tried starting the car one time it wouldn't, the car thought it was being stolen, so it cut off ignition. It was definetly worth the 3 trips to the dealership and 3 days of time for the peace of mind that no one could start my car with a screwdriver.

Now I think thats one technology I could live without, but in my defense it's standard.

 

[Brogy]

Quote:

---

Me, I'm not anti new, but the gadgets make me crazy. They pile a lot of features into them. Would be nice if they offered a base-line model of every car made. Basic trim. Air, Power Steering, a radio, and hand roller windows. Standard transmission. I'd LOVE a five or six-speed Crown Vic! How cool would THAT be?

---

Couldn't agree more. If most cars were more customizable that'd be awesome. Go on any car website nowadays and if you wanna add power windows you gotta add the $1400 package that includes stuff you'll never use. Plus it would be cool driving a 20k crown vic with nothing more than a 5-speed, ac,ps,pb,pw and a radio. That'd thing would be fast, comfortable, cheap to fix, and almost never break.

Also I think I saw on some cars you need to go upwards if you want the manual transmission, so you gotta buy a GT instead of a base or else you only get the auto.

 

[michaelc80]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

As far as antilock brakes go, they may be worthless in the sand, however they're great in ice and snow.

---

Incorrect! They are helpful in keeping a car going straight in ice. However in Snow they increase stopping distances for the same reason they do in sand. You can not build a "braking wedge" in front of the tire to stop you. If most companies did not believe you were stupid to be trusted with a on/off switch for the ABS this would not even be a issue.

The most effective vehicle for braking in Snow is a 4WD with a locked transfer case as this effectively equalizes brake balance while at the same time allowing you to lock both ends to build a "snow wedge".

Thankfully many new 4x4 vehicles now disable the ABS when in Low Range. Many other vehicles can have the ABS disabled by the removal of a fuse. If all else fails you can install a switch in the control circuit.

---

Bull. I've driven in snow and ice my entire life, and I much prefer a vehicle with ABS as opposed to one without.

Although I prefer to go slow enough so I don't need a "braking wedge". I've usually found that people that claim they don't work are those who either don't know how to correctly use them or drive to fast for conditions to begin with.

 

[moribundman]

Quote:

---

All that was replaced on my corolla besides maintanence items was the alternator, the starter, the struts, valve cover gasket since you mentioned yours, waterpump, and a belt tensioner. And thats 13 years the car is going on.

---

But does it look and drive like new? Not that it really matters.

Quote:

---

The transmission went bad?

---

2nd gear gear got chipped, resulting in main shaft bearing damage.

Quote:

---

The gas pedal broke off?

---

That's admittedly a good one. Blame my leadfoot! I didn't know the pedal was plastic back then and stomped on it like I used to on my other cars. When it broke off, I could still drive it, though, because a stump was left. Ever since I have been more careful and it's not yet broken off.

Quote:

---

Although I will admit at least the stuff on your list weren't like the navigation system, sunroof, the power seats, the CC, just normal stuff any car has. Sucks about having to replace a windshield, im guessing that was vandalism?

---

My car has no late high tech equipment and features, no matter what seem to believe. It doesn't even have a CD player.

The windshield got chipped by a truck.

No matter how much my repairs and maintenance cost me, I spend more on gas and tires. A set of tires lasts me about 12k miles the way I drive.

 

[moribundman]

Quote:

---

The difference could probably be summed up by saying something like this: With an American car the forum members whine about design defects and how much of a pain and expense they are. Audi forums tend to whine about the design features and how much of a pain and expense they are.

---

You are looking once AGAIN at the wrong forums (*hint*) where the wrong clientele posts.

 

[Chris142]

Nope. My I.H. pickup uses GM points with the Allan screw to set the dwell so I replace them as a set every year or so.

I do carry a spare coil and points behind the seat. I figure as long as I have them with me I won't need them.

 

[Drew99GT]

Quote:

---

Nope. My I.H. pickup uses GM points with the Allan screw to set the dwell so I replace them as a set every year or so.

I do carry a spare coil and points behind the seat. I figure as long as I have them with me I won't need them.

---

Reverse Murphy's Law!

 

[Kestas]

I recently had a charging problem on my 71 Cutlass. Though I diagnosed the problem and fixed it at no cost, I realized that I could have replaced ALL the affected items(alternator, regulator, & battery) for less than $100. Try doing THAT on a newer car!

Same idea goes for the ignition system... or fuel delivery.

I think all of us agree that the main reason for advanced electronic technology for automotive engines is better gas mileage. All to often it seems that the money we save on gas with this technology just goes back into the car to repair this expensive technology, with no net benefit to the public. It benefits the auto manufacturers, who get bragging rights with their CAFE ratings, and the repairman who spends more time fixing the car. CAFE ratings are meaningless to the poor joe who just wants to get from A to B as cheaply as possible for the life of the vehicle.

 

[Gary Allan]

Exactly, Kestas. For whatever reason, our fine engineers have complicated stuff like automatic transmissions so that they can do the limbo and the mombo through the EPA/CAFE economy cycle and achieve their needed goals. That, coupled with our beloved bean counters, have saved the day on bringing an economy compliant automobile to market at the target price.

Then you spend $4000 to repair the sophisticated transmission that saved you $800 worth of gas over the time you got to drive it ..or you trade it in on another vehicle that cost 25X the energy that you saved with the first one in the manufacturing.

Makes sense to me

 

[Win]

Quote:

---

I think all of us agree that the main reason for advanced electronic technology for automotive engines is better gas mileage.

---

Advanced electronic engine technology yields not just better gas mileage, but lower emissions, longer service life, and significantly greater power output than any previous generation of internal combustion engines.

New cars are better in all respects than their counterparts of even five years ago. There is no serious argument to the contrary.