Am I too "Anti new car"?

[Chris142]

The Cadillac thread got me wondering. I don't like many new cars. I can't afford to buy all the tools needed to test things or replace certain parts.

I despize laying on my back for 15 hrs to replace a heater core. Owning a car that needs stop leak in the cooling system or new intake manifold gaskets every 2 yrs doesn't sound like a good car to me.

When I bought my 02 Jeep I searched the lot for one w/o antilock brakes or Cruise control. Less stuff to break, plus anti lock brakes and sand dunes mean certain death.

If you have never gone down a sand dune with antilock brakes they won't stop. You just keep pushing the brake pedal but it just vibrates under your foot.

My pickup still has ign points. If it quits running 30 miles out in the desert loaded with ATV's I can get it running again unless it's something fatal.

Try that with a new truck

Last week another shop that we deal with asked me if I would show their top tech how to adjust the dwell on a Slant-6 in an old Dodge.

I guess I'm the only guy in town that remembers how reliable and easy to fix the old cars were.

 

[Al]

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Last week another shop that we deal with asked me if I would show their top tech how to adjust the dwell on a Slant-6 in an old Dodge.

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With GM you could do it running, it had a window on the distributer. Did dodge have that?

BTW one of the best engines on the planet. Is each cyl the size of a 318 engine cylinder? I seem to recall?

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, I'm anti new car. Way too sophisticated for any LTR nowadays. My jeeps should be immortal unless they create some radical fuel that won't allow them to run.

I keep vehicles way too long for the current state of the art. It's like the Audi owners over at Bentley Publishing's forum. You own an Audi that's too old ..not only is it still one sophisticated machine ..it's a totally obsolete sophisticated machine that IS going to bite you in the wallet ..even for predictable fatigue items. I wouldn't be surprised if something like that would/could cost you 50% of the original retail price to own it after 10 years. That's how our cars/trucks are getting ..except most cars aren't as exciting to drive.

 

[tom slick]

I don't equate "easily fixable" to "reliable". average "new" cars routinely run over 200k miles with next to no maintenance. old cars lasted a long time if they made it to 100k even with tune ups, carb rebuilds, timing chains (remember those awesome nylon timing gears). when is the last time you had an electronic timing module fail? how hard was it to change?

on the flip side when I am out four wheeling I'd prefer to have a vehicle I can fix with a stick and duct tape, but I wouldn't call it reliable.

 

[moribundman]

Gary, Gary, Gary...

Are you saying I have probably paid $15,000 for repair and maintenance?

After 155k miles and going on 11 years old, my A4 has cost me less in repairs than either my VW, my Buick, or my Chevy have cost me in much less time of ownership.

Audi repairs, 1996-1999 (under warranty):

- glove box bulb
- transmission (nightmare experience with dealership)
- one shock
- transmission (partially under warranty, I think I paid $800?, -- poorly fixed the first time)

1999-2006 (no warranty):

coolant expansion tank replaced due to hairline cracks (ca $35)
gas pedal broke off (ca $25)
MAF sensor replaced (ca $250)
ICV replaced (ca $160)
ECU replaced (found used one for $200)
leaky ignition coil (found set of used ones for $25)
light switch ($90 -- rewired to use relays)
tie rod ends ($70)
valley pan gasket ($15)
EGR gasket ($7)
valve cover gaskets ($18)
1 battery ($75)
1 windshield ($400 -- insured)
power steering hose ($40)

Maintenance:

- first 50k miles free, but the dealer tried killing my car. No more free service for me EVER!
- alignment at 70k miles ($100) and at 140k miles ($130)
- regular service costs me only materials because I do it myself.

As far as "sophisticated" goes, I'm not sure an Audi, while usually ahead of its time, is especially sophisticated. The complex parts, especially the torsen (which is US-made) very rarely break, which speaks loudly in favor of the design. 90% of things that go wrong with Audis are due to neglect of proper maintenance, as I have experienced myself for the first three years of a US dealership-maintained Audi.

 

[obbop]

Own a pre-electronic ignition vehicle and keep driving and waving at the masses of non-running-vehicle folks whose critter has stopped after the multi-megaton thermonuclear high-altitude detonation had immobilized their mondern-day super-neato conveyance.

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, have your ABS go bad ..or develop a leak where your precious Pentsomethingorother-withits-extremely-broadVI-centralhydraulicfluid (@$25/pint) starts leaking out.

Also keep in mind, YMMV

You're in your 11th year. Wait until the 12th.

..and to the point that you mentioned ..we would hardly call you a typical owner.

The main point is, mori, that that would be a very expensive car for extended ownership. All things eventually wear out. Some are more expensive then others to maintain. Most generic passe~ cars hit the junkyard due to a $2000-$4000 potential bill for a $2500 car. If they're newer ..but just out of warranty ..they're traded to mask the pain of the loss in $$$.

Now, I'm fond of all things teutonic

...but for us bourgeoisie types ....well....it's die Scheiße, I'm afraid

 

[XS650]

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I guess I'm the only guy in town that remembers how reliable and easy to fix the old cars were.

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Easier to fix, yes and fortunately so because they required more fixing.

As far as more reliable goes, you are obviously looking at the past through a rose colored rear view mirror.

 

[chas3]

the electronic ignition (and replacement of the carb with a throttle body) has greatly improved the cold weather reliability. i doubt most people would want to take this step back. but then again, some of you might still yearn for the manual choke.

 

[Kestas]

This is my favorite subject. I am anti-new-car myself. Too many gadgets and there's no repairability built into new cars. I blame much of this on the consumer and their demands and expectations. Heck, after automatic, a/c, ps, pb, pw, and a radio, what more does a person really need in a vehicle?

The Cadillac thread tells us that the measure of "luxury" is the list of features (toys) that a car has. It has absolutely nothing to do with quality or reliability.

Four years ago I bought a 95 Mercedes conv because I saved up some money and I keep my cars a long time. I wanted a good, well-built quality car that can go the distance and where parts would be available for a long time. It's unbelievable how complicated the car is. I've never before spent so much time repairing a vehicle! It's no wonder Mercedes has earned bottom of the list for quality. (Though, interestingly, it gets high marks for consumer satisfaction!)

I keep eyeing the 32 Ford street machines built from new parts. The simplicity is amazing when compared with new cars. The price isn't that far off ($30K-$40K), and certainly has a big "cool" factor. The big down side is that I don't think it's safe enough for my commute to work and other driving in a major metropolitan area.

I see they're building the 69 Camaro and 57 Chevy brand new again... but the price of these cars is out of this world! If they can start building these cars on an assembly line, they should get the price down considerably to where most people can afford them.

 

[oilyriser]

My car had way more problems when it was new, than now. At this rate, soon it'll be paying me to keep it.

 

[CivicFan]

I actually prefer newer cars. I buy a couple of years old ones when we need a new car. Right now our oldest one is 1995 so within a few years we are going to replace it.

Next time I'll be switching from Honda to Audi. I would switch to Acuras but they are larger than what I want.

I am a little reluctant because I keep reading horror stories about their reliability but I want a nicely equipped and yet small car. The A4 is a little larger than what I want but it's probably the smallest car that fits my criteria.

 

[moribundman]

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Now, I'm fond of all things teutonic

...but for us bourgeoisie types ....well....it's die Scheiße, I'm afraid

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I can't help but be a snob.

 

[andyd]

you are preaching to the choir. I'm stuck on '88 BMW 528es I have 3 of them. I can fix them in my driveway with the same basic handtools I bought 35 yrs ago to work on Bugs. I have a Bentley manual , a 150 page wiring diagram manual a DVOM, and a good enthusiast network to bounce questions off. I got my 1st super eta with 150k miles on it in'96. It has its quirks, a lot of niggling electrical faults that usually end up being connectivity issues. Parts are cheap, right in line with similar US parts. if you shop around. It has 337 k miles on it. Just routine maintenance parts. Ive never owned a car for so long or driven one so far. Best of all is its road feel. The car handles and rides very well. I'm aiming for 500k. At a meet last Memorial Day I saw a beautiful 84 with 478k miles on it.

 

[Steve S]

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I guess I'm the only guy in town that remembers how reliable and easy to fix the old cars were.

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Easier to fix, yes and fortunately so because they required more fixing.

As far as more reliable goes, you are obviously looking at the past through a rose colored rear view mirror.

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I don't think the newer model car are any better than the old models.I have owned enough of both to know .

 

[MarkC]

If my 96 Cherokee were to bite it, I'd be in a pickle. I can't think of very many vehicles I'd choose to replace it. Everything now is usually too geared toward gadgets, luxury, and cupholders.
Mine's not hard or expensive to fix, but it's never 'broken'.
Since I bought it 10 years ago, the only things replaced other than tires, brakes, oil, filters, pulgs, wires, etc. were an oxyegn sensor ($80), a serpentine belt($40) and idler pulley ($20) and a water pump ($43).
I honestly don't know what I'd buy if I had to get something new.

 

[01rangerxl]

One day I would love to restore a '67-'79 Ford truck. I love the way they look, and they can be fun vehicles.

However, for daily driving, I love having multiport EFI, four wheel ABS, overdrive, air bags, coil packs, etc... With 83,000 miles on the odometer, my truck still runs like it did when it was new. It does not give me trouble on cold winter mornings, it does not mind going on a 300 mile trip every week, nothing ever needs adjusting or regular tune ups. I just replace filters and fluids and everything is like new again. Nothing about the truck feels remotely worn out yet. The ABS has prevented bad accidents from happening, and should one happen, I will not get my head split open on the steering wheel. That is just me though. If the old iron works better for you, by all means buy it.

 

[K-Man]

The lower-end Japanese and American cars and foreign cars sold under US nameplates seem to have a good balance of reliability and durability without having too many failure-prone gadgets. I say this as the owner of a '97 Escort wagon that finally had a fatal engine failure at 313,000 miles. The car had power mirrors, windows, and locks, cruise, manual A/C, an aftermarket radio/CD/cassette and speakers to replace the originals, and that's mainly it—no automatic or ABS (a loaded Escort wagon with a stick was a rare bird). I never missed ABS and have no use for navigation systems (maps are far cheaper), fancy A/C climate control gizmos, heated seats, etc., which can all break.

I've been around long enough to have worked on older vehicles with fiddly carbs, valve adjustments, points, etc., including keeping our old '72 Ford F100 pickup running. The newer but simpler vehicles win my vote hands down any day. A $15,000 new car will haul your butt as well as a $40,000 wondermobile and probably far more reliably for longer. It seems that most of the more expensive vehicles do spend an inordinate amount of time in the shop. The old iron can be problematic, especially when age rears its head.

Eventually I will replace the Escort, but it won't be with anything much older than it was. Too risky.

 

[Shannow]

My Nissan was way too complicated for me when I bought it. Fly by wire, D.I. turbodiesel, some fancy valve sequencing. I'm honestly a bit scared of it, as if the injector pump goes, it's $4,500 for parts alone. Can't even run it on WVO without worrying about the pump.

4Runner is a bit daunting with it's maleable cylinder heads and other issues.

Sometimes I think that I should have stuck to my old V-8 station wagons on propane.

hmmmmmm....what's my next ideal. an early '70s wagon, on an early 70s 'Cruiser chassis with a cummins ????

 

[moribundman]

Shannow, I hate fly by wire. Luckily, only '97 and newer Audis have it. Mine's got a good old throttle cable (despite being so overly "sophisticated").

Gary, would you be so kind and name a few of the sophisticated, failure-prone components of Audis? You should come up with stuff worth at least 15 grand, if what you stated was said in all sincerity.