Am I stuck in the past?- Ethanol

[pacers1994]

Hello All,

I have searched the archives and read the posts about ethanol in gasoline, but I need some help. I have a deep seated predjudice against gas with ethanol based on some very old experiences. I drive a 2000 Acura TL that requires premium fuel. I currently drive out of my way to purchase my fuel because the Speedway station on my way to work has signs on their pumps declaring that their fuel is 10% ethanol. I am also aware that the stations that I currently frequent could also well have ethanol blend without the signage.

Is there any reason for me to avoid the ethanol blends? Specifically I am concerned about fuel system , seals, engine life etc.. I am less concerned with changes in MPG etc... I really want to use this gas, but I feel cheap and dirty whenever I try it.

Please talk some sense into me.

 

[Matt_S]

I use ethanol gas all the time with no problem, usually Speedway. It used to be that the rubber parts of the fuel system weren't compatible with ethanol, but that hasn't been the case for quite a while now. If you take a look in your owner's manual, it should state that the car is compatible with gasolines containing up to 10% ethanol. It's really nothing to worry about on modern cars.

Edit: BTW, my wife and I drive a '99 Civic and a '00 Monte Carlo, respectively. We use whatever gas is the cheapest.

[ July 01, 2004, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Matt_S ]

 

[kev99sl]

In the Chicago area ... heck, maybe even all of Illinois ... all the gasoline has 10% ethanol, and it's been that way since I've been driving. (Ahem ... that means at least 19 years.) No adverse affects on anything but MPG, sad to say.

 

[SteveD2]

If you can avoid it, don't get it. It's not going to hurt your engine, but you will get worse mileage and probably less power. Then again, if you have to drive out of your way, it probably ends up costing about the same...

 

[jthorner]

quote:

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I feel cheap and dirty whenever I try it.

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Some people like that sort of thing

.

California requires oxygenated fuel and recently outlawed MTBE, so ethanol blended fuel is the rule here now.

Millions of Hondas and Acuras are running very well indeed on the stuff.

Don't worry about it!

John

[ July 01, 2004, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: jthorner ]

 

[Gary Allan]

I used to seek out "gasahol" when it was available here in PA. Texaco sold it almost exclusively. The average car needed three new fuel filters before it was able to run continually. This was naturally back in the late 70s.

I hated to see it go. No worries about water in the fuel ...really clean combustion. Never noticed a loss of mpg ..but then again this was before most injected engines.

I'd buy it now if it was available ..at least on a semi-regular basis.

 

[MNgopher]

10% Ethanol blends have been mandatorily used here in the winters starting back in the late 80's/early 90's. In '96, it was made state law that ALL gasoline is a 10% ethanol blend year around (except for premium non-oxy at select retailers for vehicles that require it).

Relax, it works fine in just about anything made since the late '80's. (So long as the discussion does not veer into fuel economy!)

 

[GT Mike]

Here in northeast WI, we have Express gas stations (U.S. Oil) that sell a 10% ethanol blend. My car likes the stuff and almost seems to run better on it than a non-ethanol gasoline.
Interestingly, in doing some comparative scans I've noticed that at WOT my O2 volts increase (read: richer) with the ethanol blend as opposed to straight gasoline. It does not have the ability to reduce knock as much as a straight gasoline in a particular octane though...I've been using 91 octane ethanol blend and see almost the same amount of knock retard (KR) on it as I do running a non-ethanol 89 octane from Mobil or BP/Amoco.
Mileage hasn't suffered at all. I noticed no difference. The only fuel that killed my MPG was the new Shell V-power, and it also made the car feel a little more sluggish at WOT and during warmup.
Since I'm running no catalytic convertor

I can smell the exhaust being a little "cleaner" than with a non-ethanol gasoline. Certain fuels like Mobil especially make the exhaust really stinky and it sometimes even burns your eyes when you're standing behind the car.

 

[mojo]

"I used to seek out "gasahol" when it was available here in PA"

Gasohol was merely 10 volume % of ethanol spashed blended to the conventional unleased gasoline.

 

[CONMCK]

Question, wouldn't running a 10% ethanol blend in gas result in a engine being able to develope more power? Alcohol is an oxygenated fuel (releases oxygen while burning), and this extra oxygen with the proper fuel/air mixture should result in more power. On a larger scale, this is the same thing you are achieving with nitrous oxide. If you ever go to a race track, 100% alcohol engines always make more power than gas engines, albeit you need more fuel to achieve this.

 

[VaderSS]

Alchol has less energy than gasoline, so less power is developed when running it in an engine designed for gasoline, however, alcohol has an octane rating of 110, so if you boost the compression ratio to take advantage of it, then you can regain that power and then some. Course, then you can't run gasoline...

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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I really want to use this gas, but I feel cheap and dirty whenever I try it.

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No need to feel bad, as we also have a working Sub-group within BITOG's "Oilaholics Annomous" that can help you.

See Bror Jace's comments.

 

[MNgopher]

quote:

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Originally posted by VaderSS:
Alchol has less energy than gasoline, so less power is developed when running it in an engine designed for gasoline, however, alcohol has an octane rating of 110, so if you boost the compression ratio to take advantage of it, then you can regain that power and then some. Course, then you can't run gasoline...

---

This also gets to the heart of the matter as to why Ethanol blended fuels don't lose a straight percentage of power due to lower energy content, asone might expect. Instead, it depends more on the particular application and all the sensors and other goodies that determine how you engien runs...

 

[T-Keith]

Not really. See the gasoline makers take advantage of the higher octane from ethenol. The gas is 87 octane whether it has ethenol in it or not. They can make the gas lower octane and then add the ethenol to bring it back up to the correct level. They aren't going to give you any "free" octane.

Plus the only way your car is going to have more timing is if you experience knock retard with the lower octane.

-T

 

[goodvibes]

That's not entirely true of premium. In Illinios we get 93 octane when other parts of the country get 91.

 

[T-Keith]

We have 91, 92 and 93. All ethanol. Non-oxegenated pumps are allowed for small/old engine. They are usually 92.

-T

 

[MNgopher]

I am well aware that refiners here refine an 84 or 85 octane product, blend with 10% ethanol, and wallah, 87 octane gasoline.

My point was that altough ethanol does have less energy per unit than regular gasoline, the percentage fuel mileage lost is NOT a straight percentage of the energy content. Lots of of other things going on during combustion that make the pecentage loss of power vary by engine.

 

[Bishop]

The whole issue makes for great debate on what does what and how, but in the long term, it's just good for the environment on so many levels.

Often an engine will run cooler with higher ethanol content, it's something to look out for.
Overall there is nothing bad about it unless you car has trouble adapting to it, which can be the only problem, and the only way it could ever damage anything.

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bishop:
The whole issue makes for great debate on what does what and how, but in the long term, it's just good for the environment on so many levels.

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Not sure about that. Lower sulfer content makes a bigger difference than 10% ethanol. Some emissions are lower, some are higher, plus with the decreases efficiency, that means more fuel used.

The fact that it will never be a true alternative to petroleum(not enough land in the world to make enough) makes it just a temporary and costly alternative.

-T

 

[GT Mike]

How do 2 cycle engines react to ethanol in the fuel? Does it affect the oil in the gasoline?

I won't run it in my Lawn-Boy, but it runs fine in the cars, and 4 cycle lawn and garden equipment. Of course, the big Ariens GT17 gets a little treat of 110 octane Turbo Blue once in a while if I have some leftover. Nothing like mowing the grass and smelling a racetrack!

Makes the exhaust pipes a nice grey color too!