Tig1: I value your opinion and experience. I may give M1 another try
Am I nuts?
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I have a 2003 Impala specced for 5w30 and a 2008 Sebring specced for 5W-20. Purchasing one weight of oil is more convenient and often saves money since I can buy more when it is on sale. I feel safe going to 5w30 in the Sebring, but I wouldn't want to run 5W-20 in the pushrod Impala. So, I am breaking my own rule of following the manufacturer's recommendations in most cases.
Originally Posted By: car51
Is anyone here running something other than say 5w20 rec. ?
Yes.... I put some Redline 0W-20 in my car (because it is actually the thinnest 30-grade, it just says 0W-20 for some weird reason, HTHS says its the thinnest 30) and now my car has a dumb big oil leak.
*my first two Volvos had zero issues WITH THIS OIL.
Is anyone here running something other than say 5w20 rec. ?
Yes.... I put some Redline 0W-20 in my car (because it is actually the thinnest 30-grade, it just says 0W-20 for some weird reason, HTHS says its the thinnest 30) and now my car has a dumb big oil leak.
Originally Posted By: car51
Is anyone here running something other than say 5w20 rec. ?
I dumped in 10W30 into my 0W20 spec'd truck. I wanted to try a 30 this summer, and was duped by our seemingly mild spring--only to have it turn on me. Shock of all shocks, it still starts, even on the 12F morning we had.
I bought the oil 'cuz it was cheap yet still an SN synthetic, and I just put 10k onto TGMO through the winter--just seemed due. And because, from what I can tell, VVT really isn't that sensitive (like I feared--if it works at less than 100C then it has to work with... thick oil); and timing chain problems seem more related to design errors than with oil.
Is anyone here running something other than say 5w20 rec. ?
I dumped in 10W30 into my 0W20 spec'd truck. I wanted to try a 30 this summer, and was duped by our seemingly mild spring--only to have it turn on me. Shock of all shocks, it still starts, even on the 12F morning we had.
I bought the oil 'cuz it was cheap yet still an SN synthetic, and I just put 10k onto TGMO through the winter--just seemed due. And because, from what I can tell, VVT really isn't that sensitive (like I feared--if it works at less than 100C then it has to work with... thick oil); and timing chain problems seem more related to design errors than with oil.
You aren't nuts and the engine isn't going to care either way.
Most engines are perfectly fine on a range of grades.
The experiences related in a number of posts in this thread illustrate that.
Either oil will meet the same cold spec, so that isn't any issue and it's spring now anyway.
Most engines are perfectly fine on a range of grades.
The experiences related in a number of posts in this thread illustrate that.
Either oil will meet the same cold spec, so that isn't any issue and it's spring now anyway.
Originally Posted By: car51
I live in the northeast and we had maybe 2 days this year where it was 11F outside and that's it
My F150 started normally in <10F in TN last year. It was under a carport. I couldn't tell any difference between that and 85F starts here. I think a lot of people on BITOG have weak batteries or something.
I live in the northeast and we had maybe 2 days this year where it was 11F outside and that's it
My F150 started normally in <10F in TN last year. It was under a carport. I couldn't tell any difference between that and 85F starts here. I think a lot of people on BITOG have weak batteries or something.
Good point
Bud_One
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Originally Posted By: car51
Is anyone here running something other than say 5w20 rec. ?
I changed my neighbors oil in their 2011 Avenger -2.4 that specs 5w20. Thinnest conventional oil I had was 5w30 Havoline . So that's what I used.
Car hasn't blown up and is running good.
My parents 2005 Focus with the 2.0 (that specs 5w20) will be getting 5w30, maybe even 10w30 (gasp!
) next oil change .
I don't foresee having any issues using either grade.
Is anyone here running something other than say 5w20 rec. ?
I changed my neighbors oil in their 2011 Avenger -2.4 that specs 5w20. Thinnest conventional oil I had was 5w30 Havoline . So that's what I used.
Car hasn't blown up and is running good.
My parents 2005 Focus with the 2.0 (that specs 5w20) will be getting 5w30, maybe even 10w30 (gasp!
I don't foresee having any issues using either grade.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
I'm in the northeast too and run 5w30 in my Lincoln back spec'd for 5w-20. My other car is spec'd for 5w30 and I'm going to 0w-40. If the mfg's didn't have to worry about back specs for fuel economy and only cared about max engine life, I wonder how many of the those 5w-20's would jump to 5w30's?
I have about a dozen qts of 10w-30 as well they I will run in the warm half of the year or mix in as the 6th quart on my cars.
You're quite wrong you know about thicker is better in all cases. Man'f don't have to worry about back spec'd 5-20 as 20 wt oils really have little to do with MPG. Besides the millions of engines using 20 wt oils for hundreds of thousands of miles and where are the short lived engines. I use 0-20 for max engine life. Started doing that in 1978 when I changed my Dodge from 10-40 Valvoline to M1 5-20. There is a lot of thin oil fear here. It's a disease.
How can I be "quite wrong" when the engineers themselves designed my Lincoln's 4.6 for the thicker 5w30? I don't care that they "went along" with a CAFE back spec. And where did I say thicker was always better? I drove my 1997 Lincoln for 230K miles on 5w30...the "recommended" oil at that time. The lubricated engine/drive train out-lasted everything else on that car. I don't fear "thin" oil. But, prefer to run what the engineers designed for my car....not what they back spec'd years later. If in a warm climate or summer, I'd always err towards the next higher grade oil.
I've run essentially all 30 and 40 grade oils on all my cars over the past 40 years. I ran 20 grade synthetic on my 2002 4.6L for a couple years until I wised up to the CAFE swap. That car was using over a quart of oil per 3K-4K OCI. The usage on 30 grade is a fraction of that. Never had an engine fail due to lubrication issues or sludge.
There's no doubt in my mind that a lot of the cars out there now recommended to run 5w-20 to meet FE guidelines, would bump up to 5w30 if Max oil engine longevity was the primary consideration. There is no one size fits all in this argument. Make, model, year, driving style, ambient temps, all play a role in optimizing your grade of oil. It's foolish to think that 20 grade is optimum for every vehicle that is designated for it on the oil fill cap....let alone for vehicles not originally designated for it. When that day comes when I buy a car that was originally designed by the engineers for 20 grade oil, then I will probably use it. That car has not come along yet.
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
I'm in the northeast too and run 5w30 in my Lincoln back spec'd for 5w-20. My other car is spec'd for 5w30 and I'm going to 0w-40. If the mfg's didn't have to worry about back specs for fuel economy and only cared about max engine life, I wonder how many of the those 5w-20's would jump to 5w30's?
I have about a dozen qts of 10w-30 as well they I will run in the warm half of the year or mix in as the 6th quart on my cars.
You're quite wrong you know about thicker is better in all cases. Man'f don't have to worry about back spec'd 5-20 as 20 wt oils really have little to do with MPG. Besides the millions of engines using 20 wt oils for hundreds of thousands of miles and where are the short lived engines. I use 0-20 for max engine life. Started doing that in 1978 when I changed my Dodge from 10-40 Valvoline to M1 5-20. There is a lot of thin oil fear here. It's a disease.
How can I be "quite wrong" when the engineers themselves designed my Lincoln's 4.6 for the thicker 5w30? I don't care that they "went along" with a CAFE back spec. And where did I say thicker was always better? I drove my 1997 Lincoln for 230K miles on 5w30...the "recommended" oil at that time. The lubricated engine/drive train out-lasted everything else on that car. I don't fear "thin" oil. But, prefer to run what the engineers designed for my car....not what they back spec'd years later. If in a warm climate or summer, I'd always err towards the next higher grade oil.
I've run essentially all 30 and 40 grade oils on all my cars over the past 40 years. I ran 20 grade synthetic on my 2002 4.6L for a couple years until I wised up to the CAFE swap. That car was using over a quart of oil per 3K-4K OCI. The usage on 30 grade is a fraction of that. Never had an engine fail due to lubrication issues or sludge.
There's no doubt in my mind that a lot of the cars out there now recommended to run 5w-20 to meet FE guidelines, would bump up to 5w30 if Max oil engine longevity was the primary consideration. There is no one size fits all in this argument. Make, model, year, driving style, ambient temps, all play a role in optimizing your grade of oil. It's foolish to think that 20 grade is optimum for every vehicle that is designated for it on the oil fill cap....let alone for vehicles not originally designated for it. When that day comes when I buy a car that was originally designed by the engineers for 20 grade oil, then I will probably use it. That car has not come along yet.
Neither of you are wrong.
There is no right or wrong answer. There is only the fact that any engine can be run on a variety of grades with little noticeable difference in wear over any reasonable lifespan.
You want to use a 5w30?
Why not?
tig prefers a 0W-20?
Sure, have at it.
Neither of you will ever experience any engine problems with the grades you've chosen to use, and you could flip your choices and the results would remain the same.
Neither of you live in regions of Artic cold so the 0W qualification is of no importance and does not mean that the oil is any thinner at winter starting temperatures typical of the lower forty eight.
There is no right or wrong answer. There is only the fact that any engine can be run on a variety of grades with little noticeable difference in wear over any reasonable lifespan.
You want to use a 5w30?
Why not?
tig prefers a 0W-20?
Sure, have at it.
Neither of you will ever experience any engine problems with the grades you've chosen to use, and you could flip your choices and the results would remain the same.
Neither of you live in regions of Artic cold so the 0W qualification is of no importance and does not mean that the oil is any thinner at winter starting temperatures typical of the lower forty eight.
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
I'm in the northeast too and run 5w30 in my Lincoln back spec'd for 5w-20. My other car is spec'd for 5w30 and I'm going to 0w-40. If the mfg's didn't have to worry about back specs for fuel economy and only cared about max engine life, I wonder how many of the those 5w-20's would jump to 5w30's?
I have about a dozen qts of 10w-30 as well they I will run in the warm half of the year or mix in as the 6th quart on my cars.
You're quite wrong you know about thicker is better in all cases. Man'f don't have to worry about back spec'd 5-20 as 20 wt oils really have little to do with MPG. Besides the millions of engines using 20 wt oils for hundreds of thousands of miles and where are the short lived engines. I use 0-20 for max engine life. Started doing that in 1978 when I changed my Dodge from 10-40 Valvoline to M1 5-20. There is a lot of thin oil fear here. It's a disease.
How can I be "quite wrong" when the engineers themselves designed my Lincoln's 4.6 for the thicker 5w30? I don't care that they "went along" with a CAFE back spec. And where did I say thicker was always better? I drove my 1997 Lincoln for 230K miles on 5w30...the "recommended" oil at that time. The lubricated engine/drive train out-lasted everything else on that car. I don't fear "thin" oil. But, prefer to run what the engineers designed for my car....not what they back spec'd years later. If in a warm climate or summer, I'd always err towards the next higher grade oil.
I've run essentially all 30 and 40 grade oils on all my cars over the past 40 years. I ran 20 grade synthetic on my 2002 4.6L for a couple years until I wised up to the CAFE swap. That car was using over a quart of oil per 3K-4K OCI. The usage on 30 grade is a fraction of that. Never had an engine fail due to lubrication issues or sludge.
There's no doubt in my mind that a lot of the cars out there now recommended to run 5w-20 to meet FE guidelines, would bump up to 5w30 if Max oil engine longevity was the primary consideration. There is no one size fits all in this argument. Make, model, year, driving style, ambient temps, all play a role in optimizing your grade of oil. It's foolish to think that 20 grade is optimum for every vehicle that is designated for it on the oil fill cap....let alone for vehicles not originally designated for it. When that day comes when I buy a car that was originally designed by the engineers for 20 grade oil, then I will probably use it. That car has not come along yet.
Wrong in the sense that it's not necessary to use thicker oils in your engines than designed for.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
I'm in the northeast too and run 5w30 in my Lincoln back spec'd for 5w-20. My other car is spec'd for 5w30 and I'm going to 0w-40. If the mfg's didn't have to worry about back specs for fuel economy and only cared about max engine life, I wonder how many of the those 5w-20's would jump to 5w30's?
I have about a dozen qts of 10w-30 as well they I will run in the warm half of the year or mix in as the 6th quart on my cars.
You're quite wrong you know about thicker is better in all cases. Man'f don't have to worry about back spec'd 5-20 as 20 wt oils really have little to do with MPG. Besides the millions of engines using 20 wt oils for hundreds of thousands of miles and where are the short lived engines. I use 0-20 for max engine life. Started doing that in 1978 when I changed my Dodge from 10-40 Valvoline to M1 5-20. There is a lot of thin oil fear here. It's a disease.
How can I be "quite wrong" when the engineers themselves designed my Lincoln's 4.6 for the thicker 5w30? I don't care that they "went along" with a CAFE back spec. And where did I say thicker was always better? I drove my 1997 Lincoln for 230K miles on 5w30...the "recommended" oil at that time. The lubricated engine/drive train out-lasted everything else on that car. I don't fear "thin" oil. But, prefer to run what the engineers designed for my car....not what they back spec'd years later. If in a warm climate or summer, I'd always err towards the next higher grade oil.
I've run essentially all 30 and 40 grade oils on all my cars over the past 40 years. I ran 20 grade synthetic on my 2002 4.6L for a couple years until I wised up to the CAFE swap. That car was using over a quart of oil per 3K-4K OCI. The usage on 30 grade is a fraction of that. Never had an engine fail due to lubrication issues or sludge.
There's no doubt in my mind that a lot of the cars out there now recommended to run 5w-20 to meet FE guidelines, would bump up to 5w30 if Max oil engine longevity was the primary consideration. There is no one size fits all in this argument. Make, model, year, driving style, ambient temps, all play a role in optimizing your grade of oil. It's foolish to think that 20 grade is optimum for every vehicle that is designated for it on the oil fill cap....let alone for vehicles not originally designated for it. When that day comes when I buy a car that was originally designed by the engineers for 20 grade oil, then I will probably use it. That car has not come along yet.
Wrong in the sense that it's not necessary to use thicker oils in your engines than designed for.
Very true sir
Originally Posted By: HazardousGorilla
Yes.... I put some Redline 0W-20 in my car (because it is actually the thinnest 30-grade, it just says 0W-20 for some weird reason, HTHS says its the thinnest 30)
The KV range in J300 states that it's a 20, and the HTHS is "minimum 2.6" that fact that 30 has a minimum of 2.9 doesn't make it a 30.
Yes.... I put some Redline 0W-20 in my car (because it is actually the thinnest 30-grade, it just says 0W-20 for some weird reason, HTHS says its the thinnest 30)
The KV range in J300 states that it's a 20, and the HTHS is "minimum 2.6" that fact that 30 has a minimum of 2.9 doesn't make it a 30.
Originally Posted By: tig1
You're quite wrong you know about thicher is better in all cases. Man'f don't have to worry about back spec'd 5-20 as 20 wt oils really have little to do with MPG. Besides the millions of engines using 20 wt oils for hundreds of thousands of miles and where are the short lived engines. I use 0-20 for max engine life. Started doing that in 1978 when I changed my Dodge from 10-40 Valvoline to M1 5-20. There is a lot of thin oil fear here. It's a disease.
How does 0W20 provide this maximum engine life ?
what's the mechanism at play ?
You're quite wrong you know about thicher is better in all cases. Man'f don't have to worry about back spec'd 5-20 as 20 wt oils really have little to do with MPG. Besides the millions of engines using 20 wt oils for hundreds of thousands of miles and where are the short lived engines. I use 0-20 for max engine life. Started doing that in 1978 when I changed my Dodge from 10-40 Valvoline to M1 5-20. There is a lot of thin oil fear here. It's a disease.
How does 0W20 provide this maximum engine life ?
what's the mechanism at play ?
Originally Posted By: tig1
Wrong in the sense that it's not necessary to use thicker oils in your engines than designed for.
Like I said, both my engines in my sig line were "designed" for 5w30. Back spec'ing for CAFE is not a concern to me. It's possible I could probably run 0/5w-20 in my '99 LS1 "safely." But I'd rather go up to a weak 40 grade, then down to a stronger 20 grade on this particular engine. There's not a lot of data out there to support running 20 grade on the pre-2003 LS1's. If there is, almost no one does it. I'll stick with thicker if have to change. A lot of early LS1 owners with 100% stock engines do that safely. And the documentation is pretty solid.
We've all known it's not usually necessary to deviate from the OEM's current oil grade guidance. But, then again we sometimes do. That's why I researched the number of users running the thicker grade oils on my engines on this website. I didn't find anything negative that said I couldn't or shouldn't do it. I did the same detailed search on line and at car blogs for those brands/models. Same results. So those were informed choices rather than shooting from the hip. If the data available changes, I may change my choices too.
As an example, I've researched until I'm blue in the face what the best trans fluid is for my manual T56 in the '99 SS. I know the factory ATF is not the optimum fluid. It can't possibly be. And I don't 100% like any of the alternatives. I'd probably buy a Molakule blend that is part way between ATF and synchromesh. But that option is not out there at the present. I don't agree with the OEM. They went with ATF because it was cheaper, easier, and would work well enough through 50K-125K miles.
Wrong in the sense that it's not necessary to use thicker oils in your engines than designed for.
Like I said, both my engines in my sig line were "designed" for 5w30. Back spec'ing for CAFE is not a concern to me. It's possible I could probably run 0/5w-20 in my '99 LS1 "safely." But I'd rather go up to a weak 40 grade, then down to a stronger 20 grade on this particular engine. There's not a lot of data out there to support running 20 grade on the pre-2003 LS1's. If there is, almost no one does it. I'll stick with thicker if have to change. A lot of early LS1 owners with 100% stock engines do that safely. And the documentation is pretty solid.
We've all known it's not usually necessary to deviate from the OEM's current oil grade guidance. But, then again we sometimes do. That's why I researched the number of users running the thicker grade oils on my engines on this website. I didn't find anything negative that said I couldn't or shouldn't do it. I did the same detailed search on line and at car blogs for those brands/models. Same results. So those were informed choices rather than shooting from the hip. If the data available changes, I may change my choices too.
As an example, I've researched until I'm blue in the face what the best trans fluid is for my manual T56 in the '99 SS. I know the factory ATF is not the optimum fluid. It can't possibly be. And I don't 100% like any of the alternatives. I'd probably buy a Molakule blend that is part way between ATF and synchromesh. But that option is not out there at the present. I don't agree with the OEM. They went with ATF because it was cheaper, easier, and would work well enough through 50K-125K miles.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Plawan
Originally Posted By: car51
So after talking to KCJEEP; I got a jug of PYB 5w30 and jug of 10w30 PYB. Going to dump the PYB 5w30 in the Focus. Guess that's a moral sin here at BITOG using a 30 weight in a 20weight spec's 2r011 Ford eh
Ive been using 5 and 10 w30 in my mazda that specs 0w20 for over 80k and my fusion that specs 5w20 for about 100k. Both are perfectly healthy.
And my Fusion and Focus is fine using M1 0-20 with 178K, and 152K. At 10K OCIs.
i dont doubt you at all.
Originally Posted By: Plawan
Originally Posted By: car51
So after talking to KCJEEP; I got a jug of PYB 5w30 and jug of 10w30 PYB. Going to dump the PYB 5w30 in the Focus. Guess that's a moral sin here at BITOG using a 30 weight in a 20weight spec's 2r011 Ford eh
Ive been using 5 and 10 w30 in my mazda that specs 0w20 for over 80k and my fusion that specs 5w20 for about 100k. Both are perfectly healthy.
And my Fusion and Focus is fine using M1 0-20 with 178K, and 152K. At 10K OCIs.
i dont doubt you at all.
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