Alignment after stabilizer bar install

[rationull]

I'm going to be swapping out the pencil thin stabilizer bar on the rear suspension of my car this weekend for a thicker (but still OEM) bar. The procedure roughly involves removing the old one w/ the car in the air, replacing some mounts, and putting the new one on.

The service manual advises loading the suspension with a floor jack while torquing the new bar onto the end links (not a lot of torque, ~40 ft*lbs I think). After the procedure there's a checklist that looks like a generic "suspension work" checklist that advises checking the wheel alignment.

I'm having trouble seeing how a stabilizer bar change could affect wheel alignment, though, especially since this car has non-adjustable camber in the rear. I'll get it checked at some point but I'm wondering how urgent it is, especially given that I might be replacing the front bar too (depending on how much the rear one changes), so I'd rather wait and see to avoid getting two alignment checks.

Any experiences with this?

 

[XS650]

I've changed quite a few bars.

It should have no effect on wheel alignment.

Can you just snug the fasteners then do the final tightening with the car on the ground instead of loading the suspension with a jack? If you hang the end of the car over a curb from the high side, you get more room under the car for final tightening. Ramps are even better.

 

[bepperb]

+1, although the "hanging the car over the curb" could be very unsafe. Don't hang it too far!

 

[rmz]

Originally Posted By: rationull
I'm going to be swapping out the pencil thin stabilizer bar on the rear suspension of my car this weekend for a thicker (but still OEM) bar. The procedure roughly involves removing the old one w/ the car in the air, replacing some mounts, and putting the new one on.

The service manual advises loading the suspension with a floor jack while torquing the new bar onto the end links (not a lot of torque, ~40 ft*lbs I think). After the procedure there's a checklist that looks like a generic "suspension work" checklist that advises checking the wheel alignment.

I'm having trouble seeing how a stabilizer bar change could affect wheel alignment, though, especially since this car has non-adjustable camber in the rear. I'll get it checked at some point but I'm wondering how urgent it is, especially given that I might be replacing the front bar too (depending on how much the rear one changes), so I'd rather wait and see to avoid getting two alignment checks.

Any experiences with this?


no wheel alignment necessary... if somethin gets messed up and you need an alignment you'll know if you know enough to know what camber is

 

[The Critic]

It should not affect the alignment. However, if it has been more than 30k since your last alignment, it may not be a bad idea to have it checked and adjusted as needed.

Also, the camber is adjustable on Hondas. You just need an aftermarket camber kit.

 

[bdcardinal]

i have to do the alignment on my Volvo when i put in the new sway bars. the front requires dropping the subframe.

 

[rationull]

I've had the alignment checked twice, both times after getting a front strut replaced under warranty, and as far as I know neither time required any adjustment.

Originally Posted By: The Critic

Also, the camber is adjustable on Hondas. You just need an aftermarket camber kit.


Fair enough, I meant that it was non-adjustable currently, given my stock suspension

I may be able to torque them down with the car on the ground, as the back of this car offers relatively generous clearance. I do have ramps but I'm not sure I trust them anymore as I stupidly drove over them a while ago in a different car, denting the lip on the front. They're probably fine but still.. I'm not too worried about loading the suspension with a jack. But I'll just do it on the ground if possible, even if I have to drive up on some planks.

Originally Posted By: rmz

no wheel alignment necessary... if somethin gets messed up and you need an alignment you'll know if you know enough to know what camber is


If this were the front I'd agree, but how noticeable is bad alignment on the rear wheels of a FWD car while driving (i.e. I don't really want to just wait a while and see if the tire wear gets screwed up)?

 

[hooligan24]

jack the car up and then set it back down on some concrete blocks, ramps, or a stack of 2x10's. then tighten everything up to the proper torque. no alignment needed.

Always use jack stands when using something out of the norm like a stack of 2x's or concrete blocks.....just in case

 

[another Todd]

Just make sure the car is level from left to right when changing the bar, otherwise it could be loaded. Level front to back doesn't matter. No alignment needed unless you needed one before the swap.

 

[rationull]

Good point. That's a good reason to do it in my garage instead of out in the driveway.

 

[mechtech2]

With rubber mounts and end links, tighten the assembly on the ground, with the weight of the car on it.
With urethane bushings, grease them and you can tighten her up in the air or ground, on a rack or jack.
Urethane slips and slides, rubber grabs and internally flexes. This is pretty important.

If a sway bar is tightened too much [esp with urethane bushings], it can pull a control arm a bit, and result in an alignment change. Normally not, but it is possible. And under load dynamically, for sure a change.

 

[rationull]

Hmm .. two questions on that:

1) By "assembly" do you mean the bolts holding the end links to the bar AND the bushing mount bolts?

2) Although you say that the rubber grabs, I'm still supposed to lube the rubber bushings, right?

 

[mechtech2]

mechtech said: " mounts and endlinks" - this infers both.

Greasing the rubber will not let it grab and work right, so only grease the urethane, like mentioned .

 

[rationull]

Did it today, and everything seems to be working. I was unable to get enough clearance to torque anything meaningful down with the car on the ground, so I just did as the factory manual says and jacked up the control arm on each side to load the suspension.

I did end up greasing the bushings (before reading your advice above), based on other forum posts I found. I'm not sure if the ones on the old bar were greased but they moved pretty freely, so I'm not too worried. The bar is smooth and painted so I can't imagine they'd be relying too much on friction with the bushings.

Took the car for a test drive, didn't notice any noises, thrashed it around on the twisties a little and still no noises. I suppose that means everything is fine. I may jack it up again next weekend to check the torque on everything but it turns out it's kind of a PITA to torque down bolts attached to ball joints

 

[rationull]

I took the car in for a tire rotation today (first time I've ever not done it myself on this car) and an alignment check. According to the shop, the alignment was off and they adjusted it. I'm not sure if it was the stabilizer bar that took it out of adjustment or not.

Truth be told I'm a little suspicious because according to their printout all 4 wheels needed toe adjustment. I had the alignment checked 5-6k miles ago when I got a new front strut under warranty and back then all 4 wheels were in spec. I'm not sure why the front wheels would've gone out of adjustment in 5k miles, but what do I know. Will alignment results differ much between shops?

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: rationull
Truth be told I'm a little suspicious because according to their printout all 4 wheels needed toe adjustment. I had the alignment checked 5-6k miles ago when I got a new front strut under warranty and back then all 4 wheels were in spec. I'm not sure why the front wheels would've gone out of adjustment in 5k miles, but what do I know. Will alignment results differ much between shops?

Could they have been borderline?

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: The Critic

Could they have been borderline?




The toe numbers 6k miles ago were:
FL: 0.07 (range -0.08, 0.08)
FR: 0.05
RL: 0.06 (range 0.04, 0.16)
RR: 0.11


And today, before the adjustment:
FL: -0.09
FR: 0.16
RL: 0.00
RR: 0.03


I'm not sure what's up with the sign difference on the FL and the large difference on FR. I don't think they were faking it because I watched the guy actually do the adjustment. Not sure what to think of it.

 

[The Critic]

Here's something interesting.

I was looking over the instructions to R/R the front sway bar on my Saturn. According to the FSM, an alignment is required after a sway bar replacement.

I'm not exactly sure why, but here's the procedure:

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1336773&postcount=2

 

[bdcardinal]

i think they want the alignment at least checked since you are removing or at least loosening up a control arm.

 

[rationull]

Yeah that process sounds way more involved than the R&R on the Civic, where you pretty much just have to unbolt the stabilizer end links and pull the bar out. But the Civic's manual directs an alignment too, anyway.