Alec Baldwin gun incident

[doitmyself]

At this moment, I too have the general thoughts of MrHorspwer.

My analogy: We accept our vehicles from the service garage and drive away, assuming that the licensed mechanic did all of the brake work correctly. Even though many of us here have mechanical expertise, we still trust that our 2 ton potential accident bomb is safe without doing any checks. We trust the expert in charge of doing safe work.

How is this gun incident any different? The on-set movie protocol is that the arms expert is the competent person that ensures safety. Of course people should double check any gun handed to them just like we should check our brake work before leaving the service garage.

It seems that a number of blunders led to this tragedy.

 

[bbhero]

This falls in line with.....

" Trust the experts".

I feel very bad for Baldwin... Terrible circumstance.

 

[MNgopher]

By the thoughts of some in this thread, the actor is to be an expert in everything and anything they are "acting" on the set. Good luck with that...

As others have pointed out, there are supposed to be multiple people on the set tasked with this item - From verifying the state of the weapon, loading the weapon, making sure everyone knows the state of it, and enforcing any and all safety precautions.

From the sounds of it, there were many issues with this production - starting with having actual live ammo present on or around the production, and from all sounds of it this is a huge no-no for a legitimate production.

Same as any industry, safety does not happen by accident - its a culture and its driven into everyone's heads. This smacks of a production that forgot this in every way, and here we are...

 

[4WD]

I only have wheelers and always will - pretty easy to see if rounds are in place + see both ends …
This was a western … six shooter I’d assume ?

 

[Hall]

All of the gun folks need to look at this completely different. Yes, all of the gun safety measures you refer to are 100% valid but in this situation, actors/actresses are not, don't need to be, and shouldn't be expected to be "gun experts". They may be afraid of guns, they may hate guns and want nothing to do with them but as an actor/actress, sometimes it may be part of their job. They are making a movie, i.e. make believe. There shouldn't be a "real" gun on the set. There shouldn't be "real" ammo either. The "gun expert" in this case royally eff'd up and an actor has to live with this the rest of their life. I'm not a fan of Baldwin either, well, except for in The Hunt for Red October . I have vague ideas about his political stance but frankly don't care what he thinks. It doesn't change what happened though.

 

[AZjeff]

Does anyone KNOW the industry definition of a prop gun? Is it a gun specifically made to be realistic but not be able to shoot ballistic ammo or is it any gun being used in the movie?

It's apparently not movie industry standard for every actor handed a gun to clear it in a safe manner as us gun people do automatically. There have been countless thousands of movie scenes with guns being discharged and yes they're being pointed at other actors, the camera, cars, airplanes, etc. and only a small handful of injuries or fatalities from all these guns. Obviously safety protocols weren't followed, 2 that I find inexcusable are live ammo anywhere near a movie set and using a "prop gun" for plinking out in the desert in down time.

All the talk is about Baldwin but there's a little boy without a mother because of someone's negligence.

A couple of years ago in Tombstone one of the shootout actors shot another because he'd been target shooting his pistol with live ammo and failed to clear it before the next shootout. Incredible he didn't shoot tourists watching the show.

 

[ripcord]

Sheesh. When it comes to being around dangerous chemicals, heavy machinery, and firearms in a professional setting, everyone attends the safety meeting. Everyone takes the class. Everyone who might come into contact has to demonstrate they understand the basic minimal safety rules, signs the code of conduct, etc, etc, etc. Everyone is responsible because the stakes are too high. Anything less will eventually (and did) result in disaster.

Firearms safety rules are so simple that it's non-sensical to think they shouldn't apply to non-experts. You don't have to be an expert to know and follow them is the point.

Every gun is loaded until you checked it personally. You never point one at anything you don't intend to destroy. Fingers off the trigger until ready to fire. Always be sure of your target and backstop before you fire. Had any one of those rules been met we wouldn't be having this discussion. If you trust other people to make sure safety rules are followed for you, eventually bad things happen.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

It should be ONE PERSON with ultimate responsibility and IMO it should be the "weapons master" as is the industry standard so it's consistent from set to set.

If the weapons master "knows" the actor will double-check his work, he doesn't have that ultimate responsibility... because the next actor may not know guns like this one. Weapons Master should assume he's giving the gun to a monkey.

Actually called "The Armorer" in the industry and she was 24 years old and admitted she was over her head. But she's not the only issue here...

 

[GoldDot40]

I've been around, shot, repaired, taught and owned firearms in one way or another most of my 44 years on this Earth. My experience tells me that everybody who touched that firearm within the hour (or beyond) prior to the shooting shares responsibility in this mishap.

Every one of those people had a common responsibility...and failed. It's called safety. As previously mentioned, a "prop gun" isn't able to be loaded to go plinking by the crew earlier in the day. This was a real, functional firearm.

 

[wpod]

They aren't firearms, they're harmless movie props. It's the weapons master's job to make sure of that in a variety of ways so this kind of thing doesn't happen.

Obviously they are firearms. ,,,, it is whom ever is handling the gun to be responsible .

 

[tombalas]

Years ago something similar happened at Wild West City, a western-themed park in Byram NJ. During the staged shootout, one of the actor gunslingers used live ammo and killed another actor, Years of investigation revealed that the shooting may not have been as simple as the gun was loaded accidentally - someone loaded that gun intending for bad things to happen. So let's wait to see what the investigation here uncovers.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

So because they're on a movie set, basic firearm safety gets tossed out the window?

In fact basic safety as you know it DOES go out the window of they can't make a decent film. I was in the Army and we fired blanks at each other using MILES stuff. At some point you have to use simulations assuming things are safe and live ammo doesn't get into the mix. There are scenes where a gun is pointed directly at the camera. It's not supposed to be a gun range if we are being fair here...

But the fact that here was live ammo here and things were not tightly controlled is egregious on this set,,,,

 

[vw7674]

I listen to KFI Los Angeles on iHeart radio at work. They reportedly said that gun was previously used on the set with live rounds for having fun plinking and target practice.

Sounds like the appointed weapons handler is going down for this if that was the case.

 

[ZeeOSix]

It should be ONE PERSON with ultimate responsibility and IMO it should be the "weapons master" as is the industry standard so it's consistent from set to set.

If the weapons master "knows" the actor will double-check his work, he doesn't have that ultimate responsibility... because the next actor may not know guns like this one. Weapons Master should assume he's giving the gun to a monkey.

There was someone there who was suppose to be ultimately in charge of the firrarms on set, but they obviously failed to properly do their job.

They also broke the film industry rules/regulations that NO live ammo is supposed to be anywhere near or in set.

 

[AZjeff]

You never point one at anything you don't intend to destroy. . Always be sure of your target and backstop before you fire.

How do you follow these 2 rules while making a movie?

We live in the real world with real weapons and live ammo and the 4 rules should be absolutes at home, at the range, hunting, gun store, etc. When the rules aren't followed people can get hurt. Movie sets have their own gun safety rules that work when followed.

 

[ZeeOSix]

‘Rust’ crew reportedly loaded Baldwin’s gun with live bullets for target practice

Production sources had previously revealed that the gun had been used for off-the-clock target practice — which could explain how a live round ended up in its chamber.

nypost.com

The person who brought LIVE rounds against film industry regulations on set is mostly to blame.

 

[ZeeOSix]

As previously mentioned, a "prop gun" isn't able to be loaded to go plinking by the crew 8 in the day. This was a real, functional firearm.

Most movie sets using guns have some real guns that use blanks for certain scenes. Thats why there's an Armorer expert in charge.

 

[nomas]

According to the Union Rep , the Armorer was not on the set when the incident occurred . I don't know how the rules work but it seems to me like NO guns of any type should have been handled by anybody without oversight there .

 

[ZeeOSix]

The incident that happenen during filming of "The Crow" that killed Brandon Lee hapoened in a more bizzar way. Google it if interested.

 

[ripcord]

The incident that happenen during filming of "The Crow" that killed Brandon Lee hapoened in a more bizzar way. Google it if interested.

Sort of. If I remember correctly, someone was trying to create blanks from real live ammo and pulled the bullets and powder from some live .44 mag rounds. What they didn't check for was to see if anything was in the barrel (there was) and the force of the primer going off was enough to propel whatever was in the barrel into Lee's torso.