Airstrikes in Syria.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
I wouldn't go off of nobel prizes as a statement of achievement. Their disbursement is politically motivated.
Witness the peace prize given to zero at the beginning of his term. Result? He's bombed seven countries and plunged the mideast and north africa into chaos, and fomented unrest in Ukraine (euromaidan) and now also in Hong Kong... the guy's been committing arson on a global scale, plunging the world on fire, and he has a nobel prize to show for it.
FACT: before his term, Libya was stable, and in fact the most prosperous nation in Africa.
FACT: before his term, Syria was stable, and many more people were alive.
FACT: before his term, Ukraine was stable and wasn't divided into east and west and it had control of Crimea
FACT: before his term, Egypt was stable.
FACT: before his term, Iraq was stable.
FACT: before his term, we didn't have all of Central America's dregs pouring into our border like we do right now

He has a Nobel Peace Prize.

The nobel prize is MEANINGLESS!


I don't who is a bigger idiot. You or the guy you're responding too...

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dd2c6d16-45a1-11e4-ab10-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3EouwVMuJ

http://www.jammiewf.com/2014/isis-advanc...stimating-them/

I have said this before. Either the U.S. goes all in on military intervention or does nothing and move on. Another examples of half measures does not work.


Completely not true, why do you think they created the "Special Forces"? There is in fact a long history of the U.S. supporting factions, using skulduggery, espionage, surgical strikes, etc. -- without deploying armored divisions...

Quote:
Also IMO no one should buy the notion that the President was not briefed on the expansion of ISIS, I have never been part of the intelligence community and I see the expansion of ISIS by using google over the last 18 months. I am sure the professionals that are in the intelligence community are more capable and dedicated then an citizen goggling the internet.


Whether he was briefed or not, it's pretty obvious no one saw this coming and the intell hacks in Washington WAY overestimated the Iraqi Army, which is a shell of what we trained and left...

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: gman2304
Stable....[firmly established...not subject to insecurity]. Your examples..Libya, Syria, Ukraine, Egypt, Iraq! Really?

Yeah!
They were! Absolutely!
It was his state department and his color revolution/arab spring cronies who lit those areas on fire!


Eh, no it wasn't! It was the Neocons and their bringing "democracy" to Iraq...

Go back to licking Putin's feet...

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/syria-u-s-dual-policy-is-recipe-for-more-violence/

UNITED NATIONS -- Syria's foreign minister on Monday blasted the United States' "dual policy" of striking at some militants in Syria while providing money, weapons and training to others, calling it a recipe for more violence and terrorism.

Walid al-Moallem said such behavior creates a "fertile ground" for the continued growth of extremism in countries including Syria, Iraq and Lebanon.


We should really support more state terrorists, like the Syrian Assad regime, which in fact creates the petri dish for microbial terrorist like Sayyid Qutb and the Muslim Brotherhood...

It's sort of like Typhoid Mary lecturing us on personal hygiene to prevent Ebola outbreaks!

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
...

We're not comparing. It's about time this group learned to stand on their own accomplishments, not crying about how some old leader in the past screwed up.
...




Originally Posted By: dave1251
....

Also about 9-11 a President Clinton reportedly had no less than 6 opportunities to kill Bin Laden(Clinton also gave a interview on 9-10 and spoke about one occasion and vetoed)and about WMD's do some research. Russian, Czech Republic, and Jordain intelligence reported about Saddam pursuing and harboring WMD's. For some reason and it fits the stereotype of Americans possessing the attention span of kindergarteners many people conveniently ignore or do not research enough to know this fact.


Ha ha! The gold standards in right wing hypocrisy!

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Considering the ties of the Syrian government and Putin this would not be the best course of action. It may be better then the current pipe dream of training and arming "moderate rebels" that are tied with Al-Qaeda.


Or maybe we can dig up some NAZIS, they have roughly the same moral compass of the Syrian gov't and the torture thugs like Assad that are what creates people in ISIS/al Qaida/that other splinter group, etc...

You do realize that ISIS never appeared in the Syrian Civil War until several years into the conflict, and the vast majority of anti-Assad insurgents were fairly moderate well into the conflict...

How about Clinton prevented Bosnia from being overrun by fundamentalist thugs?

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: dave1251
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dd2c6d16-45a1-11e4-ab10-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3EouwVMuJ

http://www.jammiewf.com/2014/isis-advanc...stimating-them/

I have said this before. Either the U.S. goes all in on military intervention or does nothing and move on. Another examples of half measures does not work.


Completely not true, why do you think they created the "Special Forces"? There is in fact a long history of the U.S. supporting factions, using skulduggery, espionage, surgical strikes, etc. -- without deploying armored divisions...

Quote:
Also IMO no one should buy the notion that the President was not briefed on the expansion of ISIS, I have never been part of the intelligence community and I see the expansion of ISIS by using google over the last 18 months. I am sure the professionals that are in the intelligence community are more capable and dedicated then an citizen goggling the internet.


Whether he was briefed or not, it's pretty obvious no one saw this coming and the intell hacks in Washington WAY overestimated the Iraqi Army, which is a shell of what we trained and left...


Special Forces are the best at what they do. The current situation of ISIS running roughshod throughout Iraq and Syria is not a Taliban in Afghanistan situation at moment. The opportunity to sweep in with air power, S.F. and with the support of the local populace to confuse and route the enemy has passed. For one airstrikes against ISIS has been going on for months now, ISIS expected this and has prepared, unlike against the Taliban in Afghanistan the Sunni's in Iraq and Syria are not clamoring for the removal of ISIS, and the local tribes in the region have heard this story before. Help us remove the radicals and we will ensure their safety.

Given the first chance your hero in chief cut on them like a bad prom date. Now General Allen has been called back to duty to attempt to pull another rabbit of the hat to save and rebuild that trust again.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
...

You must not read. They rob banks, too, and have millions and millions of dollars in cash and precious metals.

Quit the stupid peacenik act, it is simply not very smart to ignore a threat when your SWORN DUTY is to protect us!


Right! Because they're a bunch of murdering, criminal [censored] and nearly EVERYBODY hates them. They might as well cut their own heads off!

Only phenomenally incompetent and despotic gov'ts let piles of feces like this gain any power, i.e.: the Maliki and Assad regimes...

 

[Apollo14]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Sorry if the issue of staying in Iraq disagrees with you


Now we're getting somewhere. Your plan has us staying in Iraq. And when we do that where will ISIS go? If they go to Syria then they're more likely to topple Assad, so we have to follow them there too. And if we do that, then we'll have to stay in and run Syria too. And the terrorists will scatter to other countries. Some of them may even go back home to western countries and cause problems back there emboldened by their fighting experience.

I say contain all these people in Iraq, let them engage in, as Netanyahu said, their Kalashnikov battles from the pick up trucks. Give them their year or two of jihad fame where they are convinced they'll get to heaven if they die and let the Iraqi's deal with them on the ground.

Now, you will no doubt say the Iraqi's aren't up to it. Well consider these numbers:

You and others have said ISIS is 30,000 strong.

Do you know how large Iraq's military is? 271,000 + 500,000 reserve.

Given these numbers, I have no idea why we can't expect them to fight this fight and secure their own country. If they have to do it under our leadership and direction while they build their courage and discipline, then fine. They can buy the equipment and weapons from us and learn how to do their own defense instead of getting us to do it for them.

I have no idea why you don't understand that when a country like Iraq is in trouble from a mere 30,000 militants, that is the moment when we use leverage and insist on fixing the problem in a way that is advantageous to our long term interests rather than end up occupying Iraq & Syria for an indeterminate amount of time.

What is in our interests is a battle fought by Iraqi troops who then learn to secure their own country. These should be our conditions for helping them out. If we send in US troops, ISIS will just retreat, focus on Syria and / or bide their time / use guerilla type warfare. They will pick tactics that give them a battle to sustain as long as possible.

Originally Posted By: dave1251
With your logic Nazi Germany should not have been engaged by the U.S. after all Germany did not attack the U.S. Japan did. All Germany did was declare war against the U.S.


You are wrong on two counts. Firstly, I do support stopping ISIS, but we need Iraqis fighting on the ground. We must be able to find enough competent and willing troops out of 800,000 to fight a force of 30,000, especially with US military direction, equipment, technology and air support.

Secondly comparing ISIS to Nazi Germany in WW2 is ridiculous. Germany had 18 million serve in WW2. After defeating France, Britain stood alone for 2 years until the US joined and had also 18 million serve over the course of the war.

ISIS is 30,000 and the Iraqi army numbers 800,000 and we've intervened.

WW2 was 18 million vs 18 million and it took us 2 years to get involved.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Considering the ties of the Syrian government and Putin this would not be the best course of action. It may be better then the current pipe dream of training and arming "moderate rebels" that are tied with Al-Qaeda.


Or maybe we can dig up some NAZIS, they have roughly the same moral compass of the Syrian gov't and the torture thugs like Assad that are what creates people in ISIS/al Qaida/that other splinter group, etc...

You do realize that ISIS never appeared in the Syrian Civil War until several years into the conflict, and the vast majority of anti-Assad insurgents were fairly moderate well into the conflict...

How about Clinton prevented Bosnia from being overrun by fundamentalist thugs?


Please explain how training and arming Al-Qaeda allied "moderate rebels" whom have the primary goal of overthrowing Assad first and foremost and have little incentive to fight ISIS a good idea? Notice there is very few reports of any group battling ISIS other than Kurds. Why?

 

[Apollo14]

Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: dave1251
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/syria-u-s-dual-policy-is-recipe-for-more-violence/

UNITED NATIONS -- Syria's foreign minister on Monday blasted the United States' "dual policy" of striking at some militants in Syria while providing money, weapons and training to others, calling it a recipe for more violence and terrorism.

Walid al-Moallem said such behavior creates a "fertile ground" for the continued growth of extremism in countries including Syria, Iraq and Lebanon.


We should really support more state terrorists, like the Syrian Assad regime, which in fact creates the petri dish for microbial terrorist like Sayyid Qutb and the Muslim Brotherhood...

It's sort of like Typhoid Mary lecturing us on personal hygiene to prevent Ebola outbreaks!


Yeah I wondered why he was quoting Assad's foreign minister while castigating another poster for quoting Russia Today.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
...
Special Forces are the best at what they do.


As a force multiplier, avoiding sending in "American boys to do what Vietnamese boys ought to do for themselves" --LBJ

Quote:
The current situation of ISIS running roughshod throughout Iraq and Syria is not a Taliban in Afghanistan situation at moment.


You're right. They control the poorest, most resource deficient areas of Iraq typically inhabited by Sunnis. Oh, they have some oil fields. But Syria is not known as a major oil producer. But I bet you know how they sell oil from Syria? That's right! By collusion with that bastion of secular anti-terrorism, the Assad regime!

Quote:
The opportunity to sweep in with air power, S.F. and with the support of the local populace to confuse and route the enemy has passed. For one airstrikes against ISIS has been going on for months now, ISIS expected this and has prepared, unlike against the Taliban in Afghanistan the Sunni's in Iraq and Syria are not clamoring for the removal of ISIS, and the local tribes in the region have heard this story before. Help us remove the radicals and we will ensure their safety.


You're right, we'll just let ISIS alienate the local Sunni populace with their criminality and sadistic, fake version of "Islamic law" that means "I can rape your daughter (and son)" ethos.

BTW, the majority of low level ISIS fighters are not even particularity religious! They're just unemployable rabble looking for a job in many cases...

Quote:
Given the first chance your hero in chief cut on them like a bad prom date. Now General Allen has been called back to duty to attempt to pull another rabbit of the hat to save and rebuild that trust again.


Cut on who? The Sunnis that the incompetent, corrupt gov't YOUR hero in chief made sure took their posts in Baghdad, have screwed over ever since? if only we could make Iraq the 51st State --we'd fix everything for them!

Maybe if we bribe them enough again (the Sunnis), and after al Qaida of Iraq, er, ISIS, [censored] all over everyone again alienating them, we can proclaim victory? Yeah, deja vu all over again! --Yogi Berra

 

[Apollo14]

Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
We're not comparing. It's about time this group learned to stand on their own accomplishments, not crying about how some old leader in the past screwed up.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Also about 9-11 a President Clinton reportedly had no less than 6 opportunities to kill Bin Laden(Clinton also gave a interview on 9-10 and spoke about one occasion and vetoed)and about WMD's do some research. Russian, Czech Republic, and Jordain intelligence reported about Saddam pursuing and harboring WMD's. For some reason and it fits the stereotype of Americans possessing the attention span of kindergarteners many people conveniently ignore or do not research enough to know this fact.
Ha ha! The gold standards in right wing hypocrisy!

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Considering the ties of the Syrian government and Putin this would not be the best course of action. It may be better then the current pipe dream of training and arming "moderate rebels" that are tied with Al-Qaeda.


Or maybe we can dig up some NAZIS, they have roughly the same moral compass of the Syrian gov't and the torture thugs like Assad that are what creates people in ISIS/al Qaida/that other splinter group, etc...

You do realize that ISIS never appeared in the Syrian Civil War until several years into the conflict, and the vast majority of anti-Assad insurgents were fairly moderate well into the conflict...

How about Clinton prevented Bosnia from being overrun by fundamentalist thugs?


Please explain how training and arming Al-Qaeda allied "moderate rebels" whom have the primary goal of overthrowing Assad first and foremost and have little incentive to fight ISIS a good idea? Notice there is very few reports of any group battling ISIS other than Kurds. Why?



Why don't you explain your idea of leaving the Assad regime alone and letting them be, first? Because we've been doing that and it hasn't worked either. THAT in no small part has resulted in this, more than any foreign policy failure of this Administration...

Of course the Free Syrian Army is going to tolerate ISIS -- even though Islamic fundamentalists have executed FSA commanders and personnel, and they have in fact sparred on the ground. We did the same in WWII by supporting Stalin and the Soviet Union, the enemy of my enemy is whatever...

What's your solution? Re-invade Iraq with American ground troops and support Assad? Really?

 

[dave1251]

I have posted reports that ISIS is around 31K. Sorry but if you believe Iraq has a nearly 800K combat ready Army you have been misled. Being a former Mentor I will give you a quick overview of the training the vast majority of nearly "800K" troops received. They were grouped into a unit of around 60 men aged from 15-40something from various backgrounds often from opposing families and tribes sent to a basic military camp for 6 to 8 weeks and received the most basic of training(marching, uniform standards, ranks, weapon assembly-dis assembly, weapon cleaning, and then they were graduated. Then each one of them received an additional 2 to 8 week training course of the bare basics of their specialty. If the infantry divisions had the opportunity to combat A.I.Q.the best and most capable leaders were either reassigned or ran out of service because these men are threat to their superiors. Because of the expedited training and corrupt leadership the "800K" man Army is about as useful as an bag of farts.

I can not verify the "800K" member force you posted about. Step back and think about this for a second 800K is larger than the Active Duty component of the United States Army and Marine Corps.

 

[Apollo14]

Yes it's a large number so it's good to scrutinize it.

271k active, 528k reserve according to wikipedia.

I'm sure most of ISIS have little training also.

But out of what we have to draw from, surely it's possible to create some competent divisions from single tribes and use them in areas where they are fighting for their own tribes against ISIS.

I am sure seasoned US military leaders working with Iraqi military whom they trust could evaluate and assemble some competent divisions.

 

[hr1940]

We do not allow political discussion. Politics are not limited to here but world wide. There are other sites for political discussions.

Lock time.

Helen

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Considering the ties of the Syrian government and Putin this would not be the best course of action. It may be better then the current pipe dream of training and arming "moderate rebels" that are tied with Al-Qaeda.


Or maybe we can dig up some NAZIS, they have roughly the same moral compass of the Syrian gov't and the torture thugs like Assad that are what creates people in ISIS/al Qaida/that other splinter group, etc...

You do realize that ISIS never appeared in the Syrian Civil War until several years into the conflict, and the vast majority of anti-Assad insurgents were fairly moderate well into the conflict...

How about Clinton prevented Bosnia from being overrun by fundamentalist thugs?


Please explain how training and arming Al-Qaeda allied "moderate rebels" whom have the primary goal of overthrowing Assad first and foremost and have little incentive to fight ISIS a good idea? Notice there is very few reports of any group battling ISIS other than Kurds. Why?



Why don't you explain your idea of leaving the Assad regime alone and letting them be, first? Because we've been doing that and it hasn't worked either. THAT in no small part has resulted in this, more than any foreign policy failure of this Administration...

Of course the Free Syrian Army is going to tolerate ISIS -- even though Islamic fundamentalists have executed FSA commanders and personnel, and they have in fact sparred on the ground. We did the same in WWII by supporting Stalin and the Soviet Union, the enemy of my enemy is whatever...

What's your solution? Re-invade Iraq with American ground troops and support Assad? Really?


What is your solution? Notice you said invade Iraq. Invading the willing is oxymoron. As for Syria leave it alone. Because if more intervention is done there, the U.S. will have leave behind a residual security force and to the average American Citizen this is bad.

Bosnia? You mean a civil war were the opponents are nearly evenly matched and dropping ordinance can turn the course of the war. Bosnia Syria is not. ISIS and Assad are trading blows and the "moderate rebels" are routed by both ISIS and Assad when either is engaged. Thus the "moderate rebels" have allied agreements with both ISIS and Al-Qaeda.

ISIS is real problem. Your suggested solutions are fairy tails thus the President hopes your suggested solutions come to fruition. Much like "harsh economic sanctions" would stop Putin. Oh they only pushed Putin harder to annex new russia.