Airline Fleet/Management in a crisis

Airplanes are funny... the word “long term storage” means anything over seven days when you’re talking about an airplane.

We are rotating airplanes in and out of “long-term storage” and we are rotating airplanes in and out of temporary parking.

We are flying a modest fraction of the flights that we flew before the pandemic, so obviously a lot of our aircraft are spending a lot of time on the ground.

Our older 777 are flying more than our newer 777, due to the way the leasing arrangements are structured. 757 and 767 are spending a lot of time not flying. However, to your point, United is spending the money in both consumables and labor costs to keep every single one of those airplanes ready to go.

Interestingly, the 787 is being utilized at 100%, none of those airplanes are on the ground for more than an hour or two every day. We took delivery of seven of them this year, and we are expecting some deliveries early next year. The airplane has a ton of room for cargo, and it burns very little fuel, which means that we can make money hauling just cargo using that aircraft.

In today’s market, a flight that is cash flow positive is a good thing, and a rare thing. United happens to be flying more cargo than every other US airline combined. We are able to leverage a global network, with facilities and people in over 40 countries around the world, who already have established cargo handling and local relationships, As well as an extensive fleet of widebody aircraft.

Our competitors, like Delta and American, have parked much of the widebody international fleet. They didn’t carry as much cargo as we did before the pandemic, so they cannot create that infrastructure from scratch and are unable to do the volume of cargo that we do. As passenger traffic increases, be available belly space for cargo will increase as well, and the cost of flying cargo will drop. At some point, cargo only flying with passenger aircraft will become unprofitable .

But carrying cargo in the belly will continue to be an important, enduring, line of operations for us.
 
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Thanks. Still love the 767/767. Pay cut hurts, too.

But the industry is in crisis and while I think United is doing a great job managing it, it’s naive to think I wouldn’t be affected.

13,000 of my fellow employees are, as of this moment, without a job. Going to the Guppy isn’t that bad in comparison...
 
Thanks. Still love the 767/767. Pay cut hurts, too.

But the industry is in crisis and while I think United is doing a great job managing it, it’s naive to think I wouldn’t be affected.

13,000 of my fellow employees are, as of this moment, without a job. Going to the Guppy isn’t that bad in comparison...

My stepfather said he knows a lot of good pilots that are without a job from American Airlines. It will get better is what I keep thinking 😋
 
Thanks. Still love the 767/767. Pay cut hurts, too.

But the industry is in crisis and while I think United is doing a great job managing it, it’s naive to think I wouldn’t be affected.

13,000 of my fellow employees are, as of this moment, without a job. Going to the Guppy isn’t that bad in comparison...
My buddy just retired from USMC, suppose to go to AA, but I guess contracting is in his near future.
 
I've taken over 50 flights since this all started, most of the front line employees for both UA and AA have kept surprisingly good attitudes. I feel for all the employees furloughed and I'm trying my best to stay on the road visiting my customers and do my part to give the airline/hotel/car rental companies some business while delivering an ROI for the company I work for. What I don't understand is the airline pricing at the moment. Prices are stupid low, and I had budgeted about 3 to 4x more for airline tickets. Yes hotels are low too, but not at the percentage decrease the airlines are offering. In any case, it's a changed world out there. Having top status on multiple airlines isn't worth much these days.
 
I've taken over 50 flights since this all started, most of the front line employees for both UA and AA have kept surprisingly good attitudes. I feel for all the employees furloughed and I'm trying my best to stay on the road visiting my customers and do my part to give the airline/hotel/car rental companies some business while delivering an ROI for the company I work for. What I don't understand is the airline pricing at the moment. Prices are stupid low, and I had budgeted about 3 to 4x more for airline tickets. Yes hotels are low too, but not at the percentage decrease the airlines are offering. In any case, it's a changed world out there. Having top status on multiple airlines isn't worth much these days.
Talking about hotels, here in the West they do not know what to do with work. I drove recently to Vegas and spent night in Richfield, UT and huy at Holiday Inn was telling me how they never had so much work. Everyone is doing outdoorsy stuff. Here in CO it is like a ZOO.
 
I've stayed at the Fairfield, the HIE, and the Hampton Inn in Richfield many times since they were built (before 70 was built there you still had to get on US 89). They are in a great location and are almost always filled up. I'll be passing them on Thursday returning my company truck to California... and flying home.
 
I've stayed at the Fairfield, the HIE, and the Hampton Inn in Richfield many times since they were built (before 70 was built there you still had to get on US 89). They are in a great location and are almost always filled up. I'll be passing them on Thursday returning my company truck to California... and flying home.
Yeah I stayed at Fairfield there too. Yes, they are in good location. But this summer I have been in Estes Park, Yellowstone, Durango, Bryce/Escalante, and it is ZOO.
 
I was in Yellowstone yesterday and for about 8 days prior. One ranger told me they are up over 1,000,000 people over last year at this time. It wasn't what I would call crowded in the least, certainly not like we were warned. We could go several miles at times before even seeing another car. But there were a lot of people in there in places, especially around Old Faithful and some of the other hot spots. We flew Delta from CVG (Cincinnati) to Salt Lake, and back.... CVG was an absolute ghost town but Salt Lake was hopping pretty good, we spent some time watching the planes come in from our hotel parking lot and they were stacked up as far as the eye could see the whole time we were watching.
 
I was in Yellowstone yesterday and for about 8 days prior. One ranger told me they are up over 1,000,000 people over last year at this time. It wasn't what I would call crowded in the least, certainly not like we were warned. We could go several miles at times before even seeing another car. But there were a lot of people in there in places, especially around Old Faithful and some of the other hot spots. We flew Delta from CVG (Cincinnati) to Salt Lake, and back.... CVG was an absolute ghost town but Salt Lake was hopping pretty good, we spent some time watching the planes come in from our hotel parking lot and they were stacked up as far as the eye could see the whole time we were watching.


What were your impressions on the new SLC terminal? I’ve heard a lot of good things.
 
After all the years of HOU only … Southwest just announced starting some flights from IAH Houston.
(Bush Intercontinental)
 
After all the years of HOU only … Southwest just announced starting some flights from IAH Houston.
(Bush Intercontinental)

And O’Hare.

The competition hasn’t stopped, even if the traffic has. Airlines will be fighting over what traffic exists.

SWA has pulled out of IAH, EWR, ORD and other big airports previously because the delays messed up their operation, which is predicated on tight turns and tight schedules. Those delays aren’t there right now, because traffic is down.

It will be interesting to see what the future holds as they try to capture the travelers in United’s hubs. That’s where the competition will be.

Simply, United’s hubs (SFO, EWR, ORD, IAH) are the biggest air travel markets in the country. DFW, LAX are big as well, but no one carrier realizes the potential of that market in LAX because of the competition. BOS, DCA/IAD, SEA are secondary, in terms of potential revenue, to those six. ATL is a distant third tier in terms of revenue. Granted, DAL flies most of the flights, and dominates the airport, but it’s not that great a market for revenue.

The potential air travel revenue is based on the economic activity in a 200 mile radius around the airport. That’s why BOS and DCA aren’t as big as NYC. NYC overlaps both as well as having, frankly, New York. Chicago, Bay Area, Houston, are all huge economic centers.

And Southwest knows it.
 
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And O’Hare.

The competition hasn’t stopped, even if the traffic has. Airlines will be fighting over what traffic exists.

SWA has pulled out of IAH, EWR, ORD and other big airports previously because the delays messed up their operation, which is predicated on tight turns and tight schedules. Those delays aren’t there right now, because traffic is down.

It will be interesting to see what the future holds as they try to capture the travelers in United’s hubs. That’s where the competition will be.

Simply, United’s hubs (SFO, EWR, ORD, IAH) are the biggest air travel markets in the country. DFW, LAX are big as well, but no one carrier realizes the potential of that market in LAX because of the competition. BOS, DCA/IAD, SEA are secondary, in terms of potential revenue, to those six. ATL is a distant third tier in terms of revenue. Granted, DAL flies most of the flights, and dominates the airport, but it’s not that great a market for revenue.

The potential air travel revenue is based on the economic activity in a 200 mile radius around the airport. That’s why BOS and DCA aren’t as big as NYC. NYC overlaps both as well as having, frankly, New York. Chicago, Bay Area, Houston, are all huge economic centers.

And Southwest knows it.
Isn't DEN high on the list as final destination for the people? I know ATL is stop point for large majority of passengers.
 
Traffic through a hub (DEN, ATL) is not the same as revenue available from that hub.

Lots of people go to DEN. But it’s a tiny fraction of the revenue that’s available going into/out of NYC. Or LHR.

DEN is a destination for a lot of leisure traffic. So is Orlando, but Orlando is a lot bigger, honestly. Leisure traffic is modest in revenue compared with business traffic. Business travelers book upgraded seats and fly often. Leisure travelers shop fares to the penny and buy the cheapest tickets. They don’t travel often.

The total economic activity in the front range is modest compared with Chicago, or Houston, or any other large metro area.

Delta makes money in ATL primarily because they connect folks from places like BOS, NYC with places like LAX, SEA. ATL itself, like DEN, is a modest economic center when compared with the big ones.

So, DEN is important to UAL and others, but it’s not as important as the big cities.

The total revenue for air travel in a hub city, as I said, is more a function of economic activity in that area. Sure, lots of people want to go to Hawaii. We don’t have a hub there any more, because the hub revenue isn’t there.

We fly there from big population areas like SFO, NYC, ORD. Those are big markets with big yield.

There is a modest market for DEN-HNL. We serve that market. LHR is a huge area of economic activity. We fly DEN-LHR direct to serve the modest market between those two cities.
 
Traffic through a hub (DEN, ATL) is not the same as revenue available from that hub.

Lots of people go to DEN. But it’s a tiny fraction of the revenue that’s available going into/out of NYC. Or LHR.

DEN is a destination for a lot of leisure traffic. So is Orlando, but Orlando is a lot bigger, honestly. Leisure traffic is modest in revenue compared with business traffic. Business travelers book upgraded seats and fly often. Leisure travelers shop fares to the penny and buy the cheapest tickets. They don’t travel often.

The total economic activity in the front range is modest compared with Chicago, or Houston, or any other large metro area.

Delta makes money in ATL primarily because they connect folks from places like BOS, NYC with places like LAX, SEA. ATL itself, like DEN, is a modest economic center when compared with the big ones.

So, DEN is important to UAL and others, but it’s not as important as the big cities.

The total revenue for air travel in a hub city, as I said, is more a function of economic activity in that area. Sure, lots of people want to go to Hawaii. We don’t have a hub there any more, because the hub revenue isn’t there.

We fly there from big population areas like SFO, NYC, ORD. Those are big markets with big yield.

There is a modest market for DEN-HNL. We serve that market. LHR is a huge area of economic activity. We fly DEN-LHR direct to serve the modest market between those two cities.
Yeah, that makes sense. It will be interesting to see long run how the Front Range does as it is growing ridiculously compared to some declining cities like Chicago.
 
And O’Hare.

The competition hasn’t stopped, even if the traffic has. Airlines will be fighting over what traffic exists.

SWA has pulled out of IAH, EWR, ORD and other big airports previously because the delays messed up their operation, which is predicated on tight turns and tight schedules. Those delays aren’t there right now, because traffic is down.

It will be interesting to see what the future holds as they try to capture the travelers in United’s hubs. That’s where the competition will be.

Simply, United’s hubs (SFO, EWR, ORD, IAH) are the biggest air travel markets in the country. DFW, LAX are big as well, but no one carrier realizes the potential of that market in LAX because of the competition. BOS, DCA/IAD, SEA are secondary, in terms of potential revenue, to those six. ATL is a distant third tier in terms of revenue. Granted, DAL flies most of the flights, and dominates the airport, but it’s not that great a market for revenue.

The potential air travel revenue is based on the economic activity in a 200 mile radius around the airport. That’s why BOS and DCA aren’t as big as NYC. NYC overlaps both as well as having, frankly, New York. Chicago, Bay Area, Houston, are all huge economic centers.

And Southwest knows it.
WN didn’t fly into SFO for a long time - they started that again in the mid-2000s, though OAK is still their preference. I’m puzzled by WN’s decision to expand at ORD, they literally have MDW to themselves.

I’ve read JetBlue pulled out of LGB and relocated their ops to LAX.
 
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