Does anyone believe that the life of small air cooled engines can be extended by using synthetic oil? I have come to believe that regular manufacturer recommended maintenance using dino oil will result in the same engine life. I base this on a 3.5 HP Briggs push mower I bought in 2000. It has always had a diet M1 10w30 and gets used about 20 hours a year. Gets an oil change at the beginning of each year. Does not use oil. It is loosing power like an engine that is wearing out. I think I could have done as well using dino oil. So my unscientific conclusion is that engine life can be shortened by under maintaining an air small cooled engine, but you can’t significantly extend the life by using expensive oil and over maintaining it. Small air cooled engines have so many hours of life in them and that all you get. I sure would like to see some real data that the folks at the Briggs research department have, but I guess they don’t share that with the general public. I wonder if folks in the lawn care business will weigh in on this.
Air Cooled Engine Life
- Thread starter mooboy
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Good question.
I'd also be interested in a comparison of dino changed every, say, 10 hours, vs. synthetic changed every 20 hours.
I find the reliability of modern small engines perplexing. I mean, my parents had a 1968 Cub Cadet riding mower that got oil changes about once every 2 years with whatever was sitting on the garage shelf at the time. It ran probably 100 hours a year for 30 years. They finally retired it when the replacement parts became scarce and prohibitively expensive---but the engine still ran.
I, on the otherhand, have a power auger purchased earlier this year that has been into the shop twice without yet clocking 10 hours.
I suspect what we're seeing is a deleterious effect of manufacturers' "cost savings" measures.
In other words... the best oil in the world won't save an engine from poor engineering or inferior metallurgy.
I'd also be interested in a comparison of dino changed every, say, 10 hours, vs. synthetic changed every 20 hours.
I find the reliability of modern small engines perplexing. I mean, my parents had a 1968 Cub Cadet riding mower that got oil changes about once every 2 years with whatever was sitting on the garage shelf at the time. It ran probably 100 hours a year for 30 years. They finally retired it when the replacement parts became scarce and prohibitively expensive---but the engine still ran.
I, on the otherhand, have a power auger purchased earlier this year that has been into the shop twice without yet clocking 10 hours.
I suspect what we're seeing is a deleterious effect of manufacturers' "cost savings" measures.
In other words... the best oil in the world won't save an engine from poor engineering or inferior metallurgy.
At 20 hours a year, this engine has not been used enough to normally be anywhere near worn out. I daresay it should not be worn out if the oil had never been changed if it only had a total of about 120 to 140 hours on it, providing the oil level had been maintained. Proof that it is not worn out is the fact that it is not using any oil.
I would look somewhere else for the problem, such as a clogged air filter or trash in the carburetor.
I can't say for sure that synthetic oil will extend the life of a small air cooled engine, but the 5.5 hp Honda 160 GCV engine on my mower, purchased in 2000 and used 60 to 65 hours a year (according to the hour meter I have installed on it), still runs like new and also uses no oil and I also change oil once a year, about three times the hours you are changing at. I also use synthetic oil, Mobil 1 5W30
I just started my lawn edger for the first time this year last week, and before it would run right, I had to change the clogged air filter. Now it runs fine. Check your air filter, and see if you have trash in your gas tank.
I have a 1977 John Deer edger (McLane) with a 3.5 Briggs (old steel lining) engine. Started it out on Amsoil 30W diesel oil and it's never missed a beat. Been through a lot of blades, belts, plugs, and points, but it still runs great. Starting to use a little oil, but not much. I change the oil in the spring and it sees about 25 to 30 hours use per year. I just bought a Little Wonder edger with the Honda GVX120 4.0 engine and installed the new Amsoil 4-stroke Lawn Oil. We will see how it holds up. If it last as long as the Deere did, I will be 90.
No.
Yes, I agree. I also believe that a large portion (maybe even the majority) of consumer grade small engines don't get anywhere close to the recommended frequency of oil changes. And a bunch of those that do get oil changes get non-API rated non detergent non quality oil due to some old wives tale the owner's grandpa told them. Except for those that run completely out of oil, not a lot of them die from lubrication-related failures either.
I had a B&S 3.5hp for 20 years (my nephew has it now). I just changed the oil with the cheapest SAE30 or 10w30 dino once a year and did the basic maintence (air filter, plugs, de-carbon, etc). Mower still runs good. If you are thinking power loss is because engine is getting worn-out, you can check the compression by spinning the flywheel in reverse (counterclockwise). The flywheel should rebound sharply...of course disconnect plug wire.
I just use Delo 15-40 or Rotella 15-40 in mine. I think the deck will give up before the engine.
I am willing to bet you aren't experiencing a loss of power from lack of compression. Let me ask you this... Have you ever replaced the blade, air filter and spark plug? If you answered no to any of those it's probably the cause.
From different conversations I believe that change frequency is more important than oil type (synth vs dino). For instance, lawn mower kicks up a lot of dust that I presume finds its way into the oil. Therefore, it is important to replace contaminated oil sooner rather than later.
Therefore, I use my left over oil from cars for spring/autumn when cooler temps allow use of lower 5W30 viscosity. They get only few hours and get flushed out to remove junk. Then I put clean new 5W40 for summer.
Therefore, I use my left over oil from cars for spring/autumn when cooler temps allow use of lower 5W30 viscosity. They get only few hours and get flushed out to remove junk. Then I put clean new 5W40 for summer.
Whens the last time you sharpened the blade?
Start with the spark plug; see how it looks. Try some carb cleaner. Spray into the air intake.
You could also try the ethanol blend fuel. It will burn hotter and may clean the cylinder somewhat.
BTW, when you oil the foam air filter, leave it on a newspaper for 2-3 days and keep changing the newspaper so long as there is oil. That way you'll remove all excess oil which otherwise would go into carburetor.
You could also try the ethanol blend fuel. It will burn hotter and may clean the cylinder somewhat.
BTW, when you oil the foam air filter, leave it on a newspaper for 2-3 days and keep changing the newspaper so long as there is oil. That way you'll remove all excess oil which otherwise would go into carburetor.
"BTW, when you oil the foam air filter, leave it on a newspaper for 2-3 days and keep changing the newspaper so long as there is oil. That way you'll remove all excess oil which otherwise would go into carburetor. "
Darn good idea. Why didn't I think of that.
Darn good idea. Why didn't I think of that.
Funny thing, Johnny, I have a Sears edger with a 3 hp B&S or Tecumseh on it that my Dad bought in 1977 and I inherited about 20 years ago. I use it about as much as you use yours. It never did get much maintenance other than maintaining the oil level and new blades until about 6 years ago when I retired and decided I had better take care of it and make it last. Since then, I have changed the oil yearly and the filter about every two years. I use up a blade every year. It does use some oil, and for the last few years I have used Castrol Syntec 5W50 to minimize consumption.
I use Mobil 1 5W30 in my mower, by the way. If I were to by a new edger now, I would have to live to 101 to get the same use out of it as I have gotten from this old Sears unit. Just last week, I put a new air filter on it, put in fresh gas, and fired it up. I used it about 20 minutes to get the old oil hot, and changed it. It has never required a new set of points.
They just don't build them like they use to. I love old lawn equipment. I have a 1992 Toro Proline with the Suzuki 2-cycle engine. I put the bag on it last week to cut my grass low and to pick up the old dead winter grass. The kid next door came out to see what I was doing and said what kind of old mower is that. I just smiled and went on my way. Oh the simple times.
Intake restriction from dirty filter will richen the fuel mixture. This alone will wear out an engine faster due to the solvent effect of excess fuel on the liner. Paper air filters have proven to work better than foam and mowing is a dusty job. Straight weight oil helps in engines without oil pumps. Air cooled engines have cylinder distortion allowing more blow by so changing oil frequently is a good thing.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Jim,
You seem to really know your small engines. I have often wondered if the increased wear at start up negates a straight weights ability to protect and high temps. Should I be using 30w instead of a 15w40? I mean which is really better for these air cooled engines?
You seem to really know your small engines. I have often wondered if the increased wear at start up negates a straight weights ability to protect and high temps. Should I be using 30w instead of a 15w40? I mean which is really better for these air cooled engines?
SM rated PCMOs do not have enough AW additives in them to protect these small no oil pump air cooled high load engines....these oil are for CAT emissions vehicles only
use a straight 30w or 40w HDEO CH or CI rated oil in warm summer climates especially in hvy continuous load apps like tillers and generators...the 15w40 HDEO makes for easier starting with high start loads such as mowers...
never start under load if it can be avoided
change per engine manuf. recommendations especially on engines with no oil filter...dusty conditions twice as often as manuf. rec.
no need for full PAO or ester synthetics in small air cooled engines...spend the money on more often changes
let air cooled engines warm up at least 5 minutes at half throttle if possible before putting under load to fully oil and heat expand...
use a quality name brand oil...most of the corner quickie mart oil is not even rated
good mineral HDEO is the best deal on the market...oil is cheap compared to engine replacement
use a straight 30w or 40w HDEO CH or CI rated oil in warm summer climates especially in hvy continuous load apps like tillers and generators...the 15w40 HDEO makes for easier starting with high start loads such as mowers...
never start under load if it can be avoided
change per engine manuf. recommendations especially on engines with no oil filter...dusty conditions twice as often as manuf. rec.
no need for full PAO or ester synthetics in small air cooled engines...spend the money on more often changes
let air cooled engines warm up at least 5 minutes at half throttle if possible before putting under load to fully oil and heat expand...
use a quality name brand oil...most of the corner quickie mart oil is not even rated
good mineral HDEO is the best deal on the market...oil is cheap compared to engine replacement
Man, I must be trashing my mower out!!!
I am using GC in it (and in my Honda 4 stroke weedwhacker and my pressure washer too).
I fire the mower off, let it stabilize for about 20 seconds and then start mowing, #@$%! bent for leather. Same thing for the weedwhacker!! He!!, the pressure washer too!!!
My last Honda lasted over 20 years and still ran good as new, it just needed a blade clutch and trannie and that exceeded half the price of a new one (parts alone).
As far as the extravigant cost of using synthetics in lawn equiptment, I believe 1 qt of GC will change the oil in all 3 with some left over.
My new Honda mower (only 3 years old) will put me sweetly in the grave!!!
Cheers and happy mowing all!!
I am using GC in it (and in my Honda 4 stroke weedwhacker and my pressure washer too).
I fire the mower off, let it stabilize for about 20 seconds and then start mowing, #@$%! bent for leather. Same thing for the weedwhacker!! He!!, the pressure washer too!!!
My last Honda lasted over 20 years and still ran good as new, it just needed a blade clutch and trannie and that exceeded half the price of a new one (parts alone).
As far as the extravigant cost of using synthetics in lawn equiptment, I believe 1 qt of GC will change the oil in all 3 with some left over.
My new Honda mower (only 3 years old) will put me sweetly in the grave!!!
Cheers and happy mowing all!!
Lots of good discussion here.
mooboy, I also agree that your problem is probably not engine wear but something else like a gunked up carb or something dragging on the motor or blade, etc ... giving you the impression power is down.
More to your original question: Yes, I think you can increase the service life of engines by over-maintaining them ... although like a couple others here, I am not sure using a real synthetic (PAO, polyol, etc ...) is even necessary. I'd rather have a stout additive package (ZDDP, boron and/or moly) than a synthetic base oil. I feel the only time synthetics are really worth it is colder temps (easier starting, better initial lubrication).
Think of used oil in these engines with no filtration: the oil is full of metal particles ... a very abrasive slurry. I have to think frequent replacement of this contaminated lube helps prevent wear, especially during the first 20-30 hours of use. This should reduce wear, not only to the cylinder wall and piston rings, but also the cam lobes, main journals, etc ...
Synthetics are better in high temps, but you could also increase your high heat protection with a step up in grade (viscosity) if this concerns you greatly. Their best applications, however, are in really cold weather. If it never gets below 40F in your area, I'd skip the synthetics and go for cheaper, mineral-based lubes and drain them more frequently.
I agree whole heartedly with other preventative maintenance ... especially the air cleaner. I use chain and bar oil in foam elements as it contains more tack additive than plain engine oils. I squeeze the element in a clean paper towel to remove the excess oil. I'm not sure a little trickling into the carb over the hours will hurt anything if I'm wrong.
I think Cujet or someone else posted a rating system showing the expected/rated life of various engines here. Not sure how you'd try to find that old thread. Anyway, I think they were rated as for how long they stay within emissions profiles. Of course, they'll soldier on long after that.
As we have discussed here, most OPE engines will be running fine long aftre the rest of the implement has suffered some significant failure to the point where repair is not eceonomically feasible. Our John Deere snowblower has reached that point. B&S (Tecumseh?) I/C engine still runs great, burns little oil but the ribbon-auger is bent out of shape, most of the controls have been replaced at least once, the case has cracks in it and has been re-welded once.
mooboy, I also agree that your problem is probably not engine wear but something else like a gunked up carb or something dragging on the motor or blade, etc ... giving you the impression power is down.
More to your original question: Yes, I think you can increase the service life of engines by over-maintaining them ... although like a couple others here, I am not sure using a real synthetic (PAO, polyol, etc ...) is even necessary. I'd rather have a stout additive package (ZDDP, boron and/or moly) than a synthetic base oil. I feel the only time synthetics are really worth it is colder temps (easier starting, better initial lubrication).
Think of used oil in these engines with no filtration: the oil is full of metal particles ... a very abrasive slurry. I have to think frequent replacement of this contaminated lube helps prevent wear, especially during the first 20-30 hours of use. This should reduce wear, not only to the cylinder wall and piston rings, but also the cam lobes, main journals, etc ...
Synthetics are better in high temps, but you could also increase your high heat protection with a step up in grade (viscosity) if this concerns you greatly. Their best applications, however, are in really cold weather. If it never gets below 40F in your area, I'd skip the synthetics and go for cheaper, mineral-based lubes and drain them more frequently.
I agree whole heartedly with other preventative maintenance ... especially the air cleaner. I use chain and bar oil in foam elements as it contains more tack additive than plain engine oils. I squeeze the element in a clean paper towel to remove the excess oil. I'm not sure a little trickling into the carb over the hours will hurt anything if I'm wrong.
I think Cujet or someone else posted a rating system showing the expected/rated life of various engines here. Not sure how you'd try to find that old thread. Anyway, I think they were rated as for how long they stay within emissions profiles. Of course, they'll soldier on long after that.
As we have discussed here, most OPE engines will be running fine long aftre the rest of the implement has suffered some significant failure to the point where repair is not eceonomically feasible. Our John Deere snowblower has reached that point. B&S (Tecumseh?) I/C engine still runs great, burns little oil but the ribbon-auger is bent out of shape, most of the controls have been replaced at least once, the case has cracks in it and has been re-welded once.
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