Are AGM batteries better at managing a high heat environment than a normal lead acid battery?
AGM Batteries and Heat
- Thread starter FlyPenFly
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Yes for certain brands.
Odyssey for example:
Operating temperatures from -40°C (-40°F) to 45°C (113ºF), for models without a metal jacket, and from -40ºC (-40ºF) to 80ºC (176ºF) for models with a metal jacket.
Odyssey for example:
Operating temperatures from -40°C (-40°F) to 45°C (113ºF), for models without a metal jacket, and from -40ºC (-40ºF) to 80ºC (176ºF) for models with a metal jacket.
My malibu has 2 AGM batteries one in the trunk and one uner the hood. I hope they last awhile. One is $200 the other is $100.
I bought a top of the line Sears AGM, I think it was over $200 for my Expedition. It last as long as the cheap ones, I think 3 years.
I had a OEM mercedes AGM in my X3 that was dated 2003. The customer wanted to change it by time, still passed the load test, so i used it for a solid 4 years before it started getting weak. Changed it out about 4 months ago, so it was 13 years old!
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I live in the desert. The AGM batteries I have used all made it 7+ yrs. The flooded batteries are lucky to make 3
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JHZR2
Staff member
Arrhenius doesn't care if it is flooded or agm.
AGM has lowerself discharge. Arrhenius also speeds up self discharge in higher heat, so this is a benefit. Self discharge at slower rates means slower rates of sulfation.
Better recombination also helps, especially at high temperature.
AGM has lowerself discharge. Arrhenius also speeds up self discharge in higher heat, so this is a benefit. Self discharge at slower rates means slower rates of sulfation.
Better recombination also helps, especially at high temperature.
One thing to possibly think about is getting a dual purpose SLI and deep cycle battery. A X-2 from Batteries Plus Bulbs is a dual purpose battery for my Altima is $270 and is made by Northstar. This battery has a 5 yr free replacement warranty. If I were to need to buy a new battery for a car that was relatively new I would go buy one of these. It would last so long that it would be the same price as 2 flooded lead acid batteries.
This could possibly be a idea for your circumstance. A battery from Odyssey, Lifeline, or Northstar would be a great way to go. ***Just remember that a battery no matter who it is made by will only last as long as well as it is maintained. *** That is a big part of battery life.
This could possibly be a idea for your circumstance. A battery from Odyssey, Lifeline, or Northstar would be a great way to go. ***Just remember that a battery no matter who it is made by will only last as long as well as it is maintained. *** That is a big part of battery life.
I have looked into this as I have seen what unchecked corrosion can do to battery terminals and cables on my truck. Those were relatively easy to replace. On my car it looks much more difficult so I am paranoid about corrosion on my cables. I have read AGM batteries don't like being in the engine bay and I live in Texas. I am yet undecided when I replace my stock battery if I will get an nice odyssey or not.
I live in Dallas, and Phoenix..........all my AGM batteries lasted twice as long as flooded........in those two environments.........absolutely fantastic service life..................
My wife's 2011 Mustang doesn't have a AGM alternative, only flooded batteries are available in that size. Her factory battery has started to deteriorate over the past year in terms of quantitative test results but qualitatively is still functioning adequately. It has been in service a little over 6 years now which isn't bad for a flooded battery design. The battery is mounted at the firewall in a high temperature operating area (for reasons I personally can't fathom).
My 2012 Ram has a factory AGM that quantitative test results show is still quite strong after 5 years of service. This battery is mounted near the wheel well, so not as extreme an operating envirionment. It started my 5.7L Hemi during Great Lakes polar votex winters at down to -19°F, when many neighbors' vehicles were unable to start.
So I've been doing some shopping and think the Bosch batteries at Pep Boys offer the best value with the current 25% online discount code. Price on the flooded Bosch for my wife's car is about the same as the Duracell at Sam's Club. Price for the Bosch AGM for my truck is about $75 less than ghe X2 at Batteries znd Bulbs, and only $25 more than the flooded Bosch.
I had a poor history with spiral cell design gel cell by Champion sold at Sam's Club in the prior decade with my prior truck, even though the battery in that truck was near the front grill.
My conclusion is the battery design / brand / manufacturer has the largest bearing on how well the battery performs over time.
The Bosch flooded modrls have 3 year free replacement & 96 month ptorated warranty; the Bosch AGM has a 4 year replacement warranty.
I'm on the Far North Side of SA and plan on replacing my truck's AGM with another AGM when that time comes.
My 2012 Ram has a factory AGM that quantitative test results show is still quite strong after 5 years of service. This battery is mounted near the wheel well, so not as extreme an operating envirionment. It started my 5.7L Hemi during Great Lakes polar votex winters at down to -19°F, when many neighbors' vehicles were unable to start.
So I've been doing some shopping and think the Bosch batteries at Pep Boys offer the best value with the current 25% online discount code. Price on the flooded Bosch for my wife's car is about the same as the Duracell at Sam's Club. Price for the Bosch AGM for my truck is about $75 less than ghe X2 at Batteries znd Bulbs, and only $25 more than the flooded Bosch.
I had a poor history with spiral cell design gel cell by Champion sold at Sam's Club in the prior decade with my prior truck, even though the battery in that truck was near the front grill.
My conclusion is the battery design / brand / manufacturer has the largest bearing on how well the battery performs over time.
The Bosch flooded modrls have 3 year free replacement & 96 month ptorated warranty; the Bosch AGM has a 4 year replacement warranty.
I'm on the Far North Side of SA and plan on replacing my truck's AGM with another AGM when that time comes.
Exide are very poor in terms of quality. I wouldn't get one of them for a boat anchor. Take a look at what everyone on here has said about Exide quality dropping significantly in the past 10 years.
If the Pep Boys AGM is made by some other company than Exide then it would be fine. Maybe Odyssey makes the AGM batteries for Pep Boys??? The X-2 is more money but it is basically a Northstar battery which is a great battery. The Duracell battery from Batteries Plus is made by East Penn and is a way better battery than the Exide made one from Pep Boys.
If the Pep Boys AGM is made by some other company than Exide then it would be fine. Maybe Odyssey makes the AGM batteries for Pep Boys??? The X-2 is more money but it is basically a Northstar battery which is a great battery. The Duracell battery from Batteries Plus is made by East Penn and is a way better battery than the Exide made one from Pep Boys.
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My Harley-Davidson Softail has the battery placed within the oil tank.
It is a tortuous location for a battery to live.
The ONLY battery that handles constant 200+*F temps is Deka (East Penn).
Over three years is possible.... all others never make it past 2 years,
usually only 14-17 months & then toasted (literally)
It is a tortuous location for a battery to live.
The ONLY battery that handles constant 200+*F temps is Deka (East Penn).
Over three years is possible.... all others never make it past 2 years,
usually only 14-17 months & then toasted (literally)
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Exide are very poor in terms of quality. I wouldn't get one of them for a boat anchor. Take a look at what everyone on here has said about Exide quality dropping significantly in the past 10 years.
If the Pep Boys AGM is made by some other company than Exide then it would be fine. Maybe Odyssey makes the AGM batteries for Pep Boys??? The X-2 is more money but it is basically a Northstar battery which is a great battery. The Duracell battery from Batteries Plus is made by East Penn and is a way better battery than the Exide made one from Pep Boys.
This site indicates Bosch brand batteries in the USA are made by Johnson Controls in 2017.
http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/batbrand.htm
The Duracell battery at Sam's Club beats Batteries Plus in both warranty (3 yrs. @ Sam's Club vs 2 yrs. @ Batteries Plus) as well as price, in the sizes for my wife's Mustang and my truck. Batteries Plus is off my bid tab for this reason.
Hopefully the battery in my wife's Mustang will last long enough for a Bosch rebate to pop up again that's stackable with a Pep Boys online discount code, like was available in Feb this year. If not Sam's Club is my fallback.
Perhaps the Champion (Federal-Mogul) batteries sold at Pep Boys are made by Exide? I personally had too many problems with spiral wrap design Champion brand batteries last decade with my last truck when they were sold by Sam's Club to consider that brand label again.
Exide are very poor in terms of quality. I wouldn't get one of them for a boat anchor. Take a look at what everyone on here has said about Exide quality dropping significantly in the past 10 years.
If the Pep Boys AGM is made by some other company than Exide then it would be fine. Maybe Odyssey makes the AGM batteries for Pep Boys??? The X-2 is more money but it is basically a Northstar battery which is a great battery. The Duracell battery from Batteries Plus is made by East Penn and is a way better battery than the Exide made one from Pep Boys.
This site indicates Bosch brand batteries in the USA are made by Johnson Controls in 2017.
http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/batbrand.htm
The Duracell battery at Sam's Club beats Batteries Plus in both warranty (3 yrs. @ Sam's Club vs 2 yrs. @ Batteries Plus) as well as price, in the sizes for my wife's Mustang and my truck. Batteries Plus is off my bid tab for this reason.
Hopefully the battery in my wife's Mustang will last long enough for a Bosch rebate to pop up again that's stackable with a Pep Boys online discount code, like was available in Feb this year. If not Sam's Club is my fallback.
Perhaps the Champion (Federal-Mogul) batteries sold at Pep Boys are made by Exide? I personally had too many problems with spiral wrap design Champion brand batteries last decade with my last truck when they were sold by Sam's Club to consider that brand label again.
There are JC batteries made in Spain, Saudi Arabia, and Mexico as well.... If the Pep Boys battery is made by JC and made here in the US then it should be pretty good. The Duracell is quite likely a East Penn manufacturing battery too. Batteries Plus Duracell Gold battery has a 3 yr warranty. So there is zero difference there. At least that what they have in my area. Which is a very good battery there.
As far as the AGM... Seriously think about the X-2 aka Northstar at Batteries Plus Bulbs. It is right up there with Lifeline and Odyssey in terms of build quality.
As far as the AGM... Seriously think about the X-2 aka Northstar at Batteries Plus Bulbs. It is right up there with Lifeline and Odyssey in terms of build quality.
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Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
Are AGM batteries better at managing a high heat environment than a normal lead acid battery?
I really don't know if they handle heat any better, but since my car has the battery in the engine bay above the gearbox, I made a jacket and a hat to insulate it as much as possible from the radiator and engine heat.
Are AGM batteries better at managing a high heat environment than a normal lead acid battery?
I really don't know if they handle heat any better, but since my car has the battery in the engine bay above the gearbox, I made a jacket and a hat to insulate it as much as possible from the radiator and engine heat.
A cool, and fully charged battery is a happy battery.
A state of chronic undercharge will degrade longevity faster than higher ambient temps alone will
Combine a chronically undercharged state, with high battery temperature, and the unhappy battery will curse you on its way to an early grave.
There are significant differences between A Deka Intimidator, the most relabelled AGM battery sold in North America, and An Odyssey or Lifeline or Northstar AGM.
Those who really want super high CCA numbers get the Odyssey or Northstar. My Northstar has over 500 Deep cycles on it and is 42 months old. When depleted 65 of its 90AH total capacity, it still easily starts my engine. When it was new and starting my overnight cold engine, voltage would not drop below 12.0 under the ~130 amp starter load before engine caught scary fast.
It no longer has that scary fast cranking ability at 500+ deep cycles and 42 months of age, but is nowhere near the recycling bin either. It gets charged properly, meaning fully, ASAP.
When depleted, it accepts huge amperage from the alternator. It will heat up a lot accepting 60 amps. In 75f ambient temps it will rise 15 degreesF charging from 50 to 80% charged, and another 3 to 4 F from 80% to 98%, then level off and begin cooling from 98% to 100% charged, which is a 6.5 hour process( 50 to 100% state of charge) and cannot be accomplished any faster than that.
98% to 100% takes about 1.5 to 2 hours when held at 14.7ish volts.
Achieving 100% is important, do not rely on vehicle's charging system to do this. A long drive is no guarantee the battery is fully charged.
Combine the depleted battery heating from higher amp charging with a hot engine bay and it would heat much more than just a hot engine bay.
A fully charged battery, or one nearly fully charged, cannot accept much amperage and will heat very little from charging.
Determining full charge on an AGM cannot be done by voltage alone. Surface charge can linger for a week on a resting healthy AGM. My Northstar will rest fully charged at 13.06v.
Full charge on an AGM is determined with an Ammeter AND a voltmeter, AND a charging source holding the battery in the mid 14 volt range. When held at 14.5v, when a 100AH capacity battery can no longer accept more than 0.5 amps, it can be considered fully charged.
Most rely on the blinking green light of a smart charger, but the Ammeter is the only way to really know.
A state of chronic undercharge will degrade longevity faster than higher ambient temps alone will
Combine a chronically undercharged state, with high battery temperature, and the unhappy battery will curse you on its way to an early grave.
There are significant differences between A Deka Intimidator, the most relabelled AGM battery sold in North America, and An Odyssey or Lifeline or Northstar AGM.
Those who really want super high CCA numbers get the Odyssey or Northstar. My Northstar has over 500 Deep cycles on it and is 42 months old. When depleted 65 of its 90AH total capacity, it still easily starts my engine. When it was new and starting my overnight cold engine, voltage would not drop below 12.0 under the ~130 amp starter load before engine caught scary fast.
It no longer has that scary fast cranking ability at 500+ deep cycles and 42 months of age, but is nowhere near the recycling bin either. It gets charged properly, meaning fully, ASAP.
When depleted, it accepts huge amperage from the alternator. It will heat up a lot accepting 60 amps. In 75f ambient temps it will rise 15 degreesF charging from 50 to 80% charged, and another 3 to 4 F from 80% to 98%, then level off and begin cooling from 98% to 100% charged, which is a 6.5 hour process( 50 to 100% state of charge) and cannot be accomplished any faster than that.
98% to 100% takes about 1.5 to 2 hours when held at 14.7ish volts.
Achieving 100% is important, do not rely on vehicle's charging system to do this. A long drive is no guarantee the battery is fully charged.
Combine the depleted battery heating from higher amp charging with a hot engine bay and it would heat much more than just a hot engine bay.
A fully charged battery, or one nearly fully charged, cannot accept much amperage and will heat very little from charging.
Determining full charge on an AGM cannot be done by voltage alone. Surface charge can linger for a week on a resting healthy AGM. My Northstar will rest fully charged at 13.06v.
Full charge on an AGM is determined with an Ammeter AND a voltmeter, AND a charging source holding the battery in the mid 14 volt range. When held at 14.5v, when a 100AH capacity battery can no longer accept more than 0.5 amps, it can be considered fully charged.
Most rely on the blinking green light of a smart charger, but the Ammeter is the only way to really know.
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I've got a 3A IUoU charger where I can choose 14.3v or 14.8V for the Uo phase, and a 13.8v constant voltage phase. How suitable is that to charge an AGM battery of 60-70Ah? I see conflicting information about the overvoltage stage all the time.
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
A cool, and fully charged battery is a happy battery.
A state of chronic undercharge will degrade longevity faster than higher ambient temps alone will
Combine a chronically undercharged state, with high battery temperature, and the unhappy battery will curse you on its way to an early grave,............
Most rely on the blinking green light of a smart charger, but the Ammeter is the only way to really know.
Wow, outstanding post! Thanks.
A cool, and fully charged battery is a happy battery.
A state of chronic undercharge will degrade longevity faster than higher ambient temps alone will
Combine a chronically undercharged state, with high battery temperature, and the unhappy battery will curse you on its way to an early grave,............
Most rely on the blinking green light of a smart charger, but the Ammeter is the only way to really know.
Wow, outstanding post! Thanks.
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
I've got a 3A IUoU charger where I can choose 14.3v or 14.8V for the Uo phase, and a 13.8v constant voltage phase. How suitable is that to charge an AGM battery of 60-70Ah? I see conflicting information about the overvoltage stage all the time.
If recharging from a deep cycle I would want at least 15 amps current for a 70AH AGM. If over 85F I would choose 14.3 and 14.8v below that.
Toggling between 14.8 and 14.3 amps, Seeing how many more amps flow at 14.8 would vary on the specific battery its health and temperature. 14.3 might just be slower, or it might not be able to fully recharge it.
13.8v float/maintenance/storage is a bit much if battery temperature is 80f or warmer. Most AGMS say about 13.6v for long term storage/float/maintenance, at 77f. Lifeline AGM recommends 13.2 to 13.4.
I'd not stress 0.2v either way unless the battery was subjected to very hot or very cold in long term storage. AGMS can have very low self discharge. if no parasitic loads are present I would simply recharge it monthly rather than hold it at a maintenance voltage.
Cheaper AGMS do not have the super low self discharge of higher $$$ Odyssey, Northstar and Lifeline AGMS. Some AGMS will be little better than a flooded battery in terms of self discharge. The Asian made UPG brand( and the many relabelled versions) AGM batteries are a good example
I've got a 3A IUoU charger where I can choose 14.3v or 14.8V for the Uo phase, and a 13.8v constant voltage phase. How suitable is that to charge an AGM battery of 60-70Ah? I see conflicting information about the overvoltage stage all the time.
If recharging from a deep cycle I would want at least 15 amps current for a 70AH AGM. If over 85F I would choose 14.3 and 14.8v below that.
Toggling between 14.8 and 14.3 amps, Seeing how many more amps flow at 14.8 would vary on the specific battery its health and temperature. 14.3 might just be slower, or it might not be able to fully recharge it.
13.8v float/maintenance/storage is a bit much if battery temperature is 80f or warmer. Most AGMS say about 13.6v for long term storage/float/maintenance, at 77f. Lifeline AGM recommends 13.2 to 13.4.
I'd not stress 0.2v either way unless the battery was subjected to very hot or very cold in long term storage. AGMS can have very low self discharge. if no parasitic loads are present I would simply recharge it monthly rather than hold it at a maintenance voltage.
Cheaper AGMS do not have the super low self discharge of higher $$$ Odyssey, Northstar and Lifeline AGMS. Some AGMS will be little better than a flooded battery in terms of self discharge. The Asian made UPG brand( and the many relabelled versions) AGM batteries are a good example
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