After all these years a "new" myth!

[Pablo]

"Synthetic oil doesn't get warm enough in use and water/condensation will remain in the engine causing a whole host of problems."

I was pretty much thinking I had heard all the myths, but this is a new one on me. I can see how someone would think this, I guess, given all the hype about synthetic oils running cooler, but not getting up to temp to drive off moisture is stretching it really far.

I've read this twice now in the last month or so. One in a thread here when a guy was trying to knock Amsoil. (I can't find the thread for the life of me). Anyway, have I been asleep at the switch? Is this a new one?

 

[scurvy]

Wow. That's a new one on me, too. Not only is it wrong, unlike the #1 synthetic myth, it flies in the face of a much easier subject - thermodynamics instead of tribology!

Somebody needs to contact the FTC & USPTO about this. The former to demand all synthetic oils be pulled from the shelf due to problems with their ability to remove water/condensation from your crankcase; the latter so they can file a patent for heat-rejecting oil!

Lisa, in this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!

 

[Truckedup]

How warm does any oil get while driving around at lower speeds? Hotter than the coolant temp?

 

[Gary Allan]

That is a new one.

My personal favorite was the guy who claimed that switching to a synthetic would turn all kinds of debris into a "lapping paste" inside the engine. The guy was so authoritative in his presentation.

Lapping paste.

 

[jorton]

There is another thread here about synthetics benefits. Someone who uses synthetic in a northern state can't get his heater to blow warm air in winter.

I hope some folks from places like the Dakotas, Minnesota, Buffalo chime in.

 

[duaneb9729]

Originally Posted By: jorton
There is another thread here about synthetics benefits. Someone who uses synthetic in a northern state can't get his heater to blow warm air in winter.

I hope some folks from places like the Dakotas, Minnesota, Buffalo chime in.


Thats caused by the lapping paste

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Truckedup
How warm does any oil get while driving around at lower speeds? Hotter than the coolant temp?


How long? Eventually it will more or less match coolant temp. Over shorter events, no.

..but oil doesn't have to get to 200F to dispel moisture. It's when the rate (time/duration) of moisture introduction exceeds evacuation that you run into problems. You're probably in balance at 150-160F (I don't know) where it then becomes a time thing. Spending more or less time in condensate production than you did at vapor suspension/evacuation.

 

[Shannow]

It looks pretty new, but is probably another mish mash of concepts.

Synthetics offer no advantages as the oil gets full of "stuff and junk" ... as posted by a prominent member.

and

short trips don't allow oil and fuel to boil off.

Could sort of get you to synthetics aren't worth it due to junk and stuff and water and fuel.

If you've got PCV, and oil above ambient temp, then you are probably drying it.

 

[TTK]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: Truckedup
How warm does any oil get while driving around at lower speeds? Hotter than the coolant temp?


How long? Eventually it will more or less match coolant temp. Over shorter events, no.

..but oil doesn't have to get to 200F to dispel moisture. It's when the rate (time/duration) of moisture introduction exceeds evacuation that you run into problems. You're probably in balance at 150-160F (I don't know) where it then becomes a time thing. Spending more or less time in condensate production than you did at vapor suspension/evacuation.


How does the oil "evacuate" the moisture without evaporating it? Of course a glass of water will eventually evaporate sitting at room temperature. So I guess it is a matter of how long the moisture is in the oil that matters.

 

[daman]

Where did you read this idiots R us dot com? lol

 

[NateDN10]

Quote:
There is another thread here about synthetics benefits. Someone who uses synthetic in a northern state can't get his heater to blow warm air in winter.

I hope some folks from places like the Dakotas, Minnesota, Buffalo chime in.

I'm originally from Buffalo, now 60 miles east... I think it's funny that we'd need anecdotes to disprove such an obviously wrong statement.

And for the record, both our cars use synthetic and *gasp* warm up in a couple minutes during the winter!

 

[cjhepburn]

Assuming they mean that Synthetic is too slippery and therefore won't heat up...

The answer is simple, Friction Heat = Bad

 

[mechtech2]

As Pablo originally alluded to, there are instances where guys claim a 10 deg or so reduction in temps with a full synthetic oil.
This may be the basis for thinking it is not as good for any moisture present.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
How does the oil "evacuate" the moisture without evaporating it?


It can't.

Quote:
So I guess it is a matter of how long the moisture is in the oil that matters.


Moisture will always go into the oil in any cold starting event. It's the breaking point where you're suspending it in vapor (evaporation) faster than it is being produced that determines your stockpiling of it. At some point between cold start and full temp you're getting rid of it at the same rate that you're introducing it. Beyond that point you have the capacity to suspend/vaporize/evaporate more than you produce. If you didn't, every engine would end up loaded with moisture the more cold starting events it had regardless of the event duration.

 

[ScottG]

Originally Posted By: jorton
There is another thread here about synthetics benefits. Someone who uses synthetic in a northern state can't get his heater to blow warm air in winter.

I hope some folks from places like the Dakotas, Minnesota, Buffalo chime in.


I would doubt this myself. I live above the Dakotas, and I would say synthetic gets up to running temp as fast or faster, but I have no exact proof ie. a highly accurate temp gauge. Maybe the synthetic stays closer to the proper operating temp better or just doesn't breakdown at higher temps. But I suppose if someone switched to synthetics and found this, then it might be true. I mostly have problems with not enough heat because my cars have small engines.

 

[nfs480]

I'm from Minnesota, running a synthetic (Amsoil ASL) and it gets really hot really fast in my car even if it's -20 degrees.

 

[Shannow]

With the water thing, wet oil with dry air leads to wet air and wet oil.

Remove the air continuously (via PCV), and the water gets carried away until it reaches equilibrium with the air, and the oil is nominally "dry".

That's how our clothese dry on the line. We don't have to heat them to 97C to get the water out of them.

Increasing temperature allows more moisuture to be transported out, until the oil is at a temperature where the vapour pressure of the water shifts it out of the crank-case.

 

[RF Overlord]

Speaking of new myths, I had someone on a RAV4 board tell me that Toyota told him the factory-fill gear oil in the transfer case and the rear diff was supposed to turn black after 1000 miles because it's synthetic.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: jorton
There is another thread here about synthetics benefits. Someone who uses synthetic in a northern state can't get his heater to blow warm air in winter.

I hope some folks from places like the Dakotas, Minnesota, Buffalo chime in.


He should check his thermostat and heater core before blaming the oil. I've used synthetics and conventional both to below -40. Anytime I had heater problems, it was a thermostat.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: Truckedup
How warm does any oil get while driving around at lower speeds? Hotter than the coolant temp?


My oil always gets hotter than the coolant, even on the coldest winter morning. At a steady 70mph on the highway I always see 188 to 192 for my coolant temps, and if it's cold outside the oil temp will settle at around 198 to 200 but if it's hot out it'll be closer to 208 to 212.