Wow thanks for the pics very cool
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Advice needed for torque converter fluid
- Thread starter rodekyll
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Originally Posted By: rodekyll
UPDATE:
I changed the intake hose from the cooler to the pump from 5/16 to 3/8. I drilled two more holes in the banjo bolt at the pump. Running pressure has improved in the short distance I've ridden (was 17-18# now 22#-ish), and the temperature is rising more slowly. However the idle pressure when hot is still eventually dribbling to zero.
Side note: I had to drain 5606 from the radiator in order to change the hose connection. Fluid has shinies in it. I only have two moving parts in the fluid loop -- pump and torque converter. Looks like one or the other is shedding itself. I can't make out the color of the flakes yet, so I don't know if it's brass or steel. But they're microscopic.
Perhaps that's the reason you're losing pressure?
UPDATE:
I changed the intake hose from the cooler to the pump from 5/16 to 3/8. I drilled two more holes in the banjo bolt at the pump. Running pressure has improved in the short distance I've ridden (was 17-18# now 22#-ish), and the temperature is rising more slowly. However the idle pressure when hot is still eventually dribbling to zero.
Side note: I had to drain 5606 from the radiator in order to change the hose connection. Fluid has shinies in it. I only have two moving parts in the fluid loop -- pump and torque converter. Looks like one or the other is shedding itself. I can't make out the color of the flakes yet, so I don't know if it's brass or steel. But they're microscopic.
Perhaps that's the reason you're losing pressure?
I'm not completely sure about the shinies. It was a NIB radiator that I installed and I did not flush it. It could be detrious from that. It does not look like brass/bronze, which would indicate a torque converter bushing. I think I'll look past the shinies for the moment.
I'm ignoring the shinies because after enlarging the hose and adding holles to the banjo bolts, the running pressure is way up. Prev was 17-18# @4krpm. Now it's a nominal 32#. I couldn't run much faster because pressure relief is spec'd for 28#. I'd tinkered with the pressure relief valve thinking the spring might be weak. Now I have to take the shims back out. That's encouraging.
And there is a better low rpm pressure too, but still not acceptable. It dropped to zero after 15min of stop-and-go AZ traffic. Takeoff has improved. But idle and off-idle is still unacceptable. I think I'm on the right track with the larger lines and higher temp atf fluid. Got the redline ordered today. 6qt @ $14/qt. Be here in a couple days.
I'm ignoring the shinies because after enlarging the hose and adding holles to the banjo bolts, the running pressure is way up. Prev was 17-18# @4krpm. Now it's a nominal 32#. I couldn't run much faster because pressure relief is spec'd for 28#. I'd tinkered with the pressure relief valve thinking the spring might be weak. Now I have to take the shims back out. That's encouraging.
And there is a better low rpm pressure too, but still not acceptable. It dropped to zero after 15min of stop-and-go AZ traffic. Takeoff has improved. But idle and off-idle is still unacceptable. I think I'm on the right track with the larger lines and higher temp atf fluid. Got the redline ordered today. 6qt @ $14/qt. Be here in a couple days.
You know, if your pressure drops at high heat, perhaps going with one of the thicker synthetic oils would keep the viscosity in the right ranges within the idle/traffic operating range as well as the running range. I am thinking a synthetic version of the older Mercon fluid, or barring that, the blue bottle Maxlife multi-vehicle ATF. In your case it would be $25 experiment if you picked that up at your local Wal Mart.
Back on it.
I found the redline fluid in Henderson, NV, and the good folks at Meyer's automotive on Boulder Highway were nice enough to let me do a flush and fill in their bays. It turned into a two-day ordeal when a rear wheel valve stem delaminated from the tube in their parking lot, but they maintained a sense of humor throughout. My humor failed a bit on the following day when the new tube was flat. It seems the kid who installed it neglected to run the nut down on the valve stem, I didn't double-check his work, and . . . well . . . now I'm shopping for tubeless.
But I digress.
With the new fluid I'm able to sort out some things, but the fluid itself did not solve the problem. Temperature still rises rapidly under high vortex (pulling out from a stop) conditions, and the torque multiplication just isn't there at low speeds. When warm, pressure, although vastly better off idle, still drops to zero within a few seconds of stopping.
Overall, my impression of the Redline hi-temp ATF is good. It got up to 200f without scorching and the pressure at any temperature is noticeably better. However, it has a major inclination to expand and blow back through the overflow when the engine is shut off. That's getting on my nerves and it stinks, too. I might have to get a bigger tomato can to catch it in, and/or use a pressurized radiator cap.
At high speed it continues to run well -- temp drops to below 150 and pressure is acceptable. I did not run it long enough to see how pressure held up in the long term, since it was apparent that the fluid solved nothing and the trike was not roadworthy. Rather than kill it in the desert, I trailered it back to Whidbey Island.
In my research I found this about torque converter stators:
" A locked one-way clutch will also cause the fluid to run dangerously hot, which can damage the transmission and lead to transmission failure. If the one-way clutch fails to hold its position and freewheels in both directions, the torque converter cannot multiply torque normally and the vehicle will accelerate slowly (like starting out in 2nd gear). The only cure for either condition is to replace the torque converter."
Given the above, I'm now guessing that my problem is the stator. It's freewheeling and won't lock up to give the torque multiplication. That's affecting the engine stall speed, the trike's ability to roll off from a stop, climbing hills, etc, and it's making it very hot.
The good news is that it takes less than an hour to remove the t/c, which I have done. It's on the bench next to its replacement. I want to compare them before doing the swap. If this fixes it, I want to have the failed one opened up and inspected.
Stay tuned . . .
I found the redline fluid in Henderson, NV, and the good folks at Meyer's automotive on Boulder Highway were nice enough to let me do a flush and fill in their bays. It turned into a two-day ordeal when a rear wheel valve stem delaminated from the tube in their parking lot, but they maintained a sense of humor throughout. My humor failed a bit on the following day when the new tube was flat. It seems the kid who installed it neglected to run the nut down on the valve stem, I didn't double-check his work, and . . . well . . . now I'm shopping for tubeless.
But I digress.
With the new fluid I'm able to sort out some things, but the fluid itself did not solve the problem. Temperature still rises rapidly under high vortex (pulling out from a stop) conditions, and the torque multiplication just isn't there at low speeds. When warm, pressure, although vastly better off idle, still drops to zero within a few seconds of stopping.
Overall, my impression of the Redline hi-temp ATF is good. It got up to 200f without scorching and the pressure at any temperature is noticeably better. However, it has a major inclination to expand and blow back through the overflow when the engine is shut off. That's getting on my nerves and it stinks, too. I might have to get a bigger tomato can to catch it in, and/or use a pressurized radiator cap.
At high speed it continues to run well -- temp drops to below 150 and pressure is acceptable. I did not run it long enough to see how pressure held up in the long term, since it was apparent that the fluid solved nothing and the trike was not roadworthy. Rather than kill it in the desert, I trailered it back to Whidbey Island.
In my research I found this about torque converter stators:
" A locked one-way clutch will also cause the fluid to run dangerously hot, which can damage the transmission and lead to transmission failure. If the one-way clutch fails to hold its position and freewheels in both directions, the torque converter cannot multiply torque normally and the vehicle will accelerate slowly (like starting out in 2nd gear). The only cure for either condition is to replace the torque converter."
Given the above, I'm now guessing that my problem is the stator. It's freewheeling and won't lock up to give the torque multiplication. That's affecting the engine stall speed, the trike's ability to roll off from a stop, climbing hills, etc, and it's making it very hot.
The good news is that it takes less than an hour to remove the t/c, which I have done. It's on the bench next to its replacement. I want to compare them before doing the swap. If this fixes it, I want to have the failed one opened up and inspected.
Stay tuned . . .
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