What are the advantages of using a by-pass filter? I'm planning on switching to amsoil synthetic oil next oil change, and was thinking about adding a by-pass filter to, what are the advantages of using one? Will I be able to run longer drain intervals? I have a 1988 Ford Bronco II 2.9L V6
Advantages of By-Pass Filter
- Thread starter bigwillie
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Cleaner oil, and the additives and base stock don't have to work as hard
Some by-pass filters can remove water and fuel. This will extend the life of the TBN package
Removing oxidation and Nitration particles will help keep the viscosity in check as well as allow the additive package to last longer
Removing wear causing particles 5 microns and higher will reduce wear and increase engine life.
Oil drains can be extended between 2 and 10 times or longer depending on the system used and the engine oil choice.
Return on investment can be as little as 2 years depeding on mileage driven, filter change interval and oil choice.
Oil drains can be extended indefinately with used oil anlaysis
by-pass filter can be moved from one piece of equipment to another even further saving money.
Some by-pass filters can remove water and fuel. This will extend the life of the TBN package
Removing oxidation and Nitration particles will help keep the viscosity in check as well as allow the additive package to last longer
Removing wear causing particles 5 microns and higher will reduce wear and increase engine life.
Oil drains can be extended between 2 and 10 times or longer depending on the system used and the engine oil choice.
Return on investment can be as little as 2 years depeding on mileage driven, filter change interval and oil choice.
Oil drains can be extended indefinately with used oil anlaysis
by-pass filter can be moved from one piece of equipment to another even further saving money.
ms - For passenger vehicles these "benefits" are overblown, IMHO.
btw:
Time gets you first, no matter - unless you are a superhighway 25,000 miles/year jockey - and then you probably don't need one, anyway. We are allowed our opinions.
btw:
I doubt it.
Time gets you first, no matter - unless you are a superhighway 25,000 miles/year jockey - and then you probably don't need one, anyway. We are allowed our opinions.
3. Condition Caused Contamination:
There is three MAJOR conditions caused contaminants that are formed within the lube oil during normal use: Oxidation, Nitration, and Acid. These contaminants are formed when solid and moisture contaminants are present, and certain operating conditions exist within the engine. Consequently, it is imperative that these contaminants be removed from the system as fast as possible.
a) Oxidation: Oxidation occurs when the hydrocarbon constituents (and other products) of lube oil chemically combine with oxygen. Engine oil will combine with available oxygen under certain conditions to form a wide variety of oxidation products. Many of these direct or primary oxidation products combine with other materials such as wear metals, solid contamination, and moisture, to form second and third derivative products. As with most chemical reactions, oil oxidation is accelerated by heat and pressure. Heat, in particular, will speed up the oxidation process. Various studies have shown that lube oxidation rates (with many variables such as the lubricant and additive package in the lubricant) can be doubled for every 15 to 20 degrees increase over 180 degrees F. Also, engine loads, which will influence the levels of oxygen and pressure within the engine, can accelerate acid formation, corrosion, oil thickening, deposit formation, and accelerated wear.
Solid contaminants tend to hold heat, thereby increasing the temperature of the oil around the solid contamination. Combine this effect with the presence of moisture (H2O) from normal condensation, and the oxidation process accelerates even faster. When moisture is present in the lubrication system, the level of oxygen available to mix with hydrocarbons in the lube oil is raised dramatically. The presence of normal solid and moisture contamination, combined with demanding operating loads of the equipment, will produce high oil oxidation rates, even with normal oil temperatures.
All top quality lube oils have an additive package that contains oxidation inhibitors to slow the oxidation process as well as alkaline detergents that will neutralize acids formed by oxidation. Normally these additives will only last a certain length of time before they are depleted and the oil must be drained.
There are very few bypass systems that can step to the plate to control all the contamination problems of the engines oil. Eliminating the contaminants reduces oxidation and preserves the additive pack.
Remember, some engines will use a certain, very limited amount of oil each operating day. This minor amount needs to be replaced. This limited quantity of new oil, combined with the "top off" oil added at the time the bypass filter is changed, will maintain a sufficient amount of active additives to keep oxidation in check indefinitely.
b) Nitration: The combustion chambers of engines provide one of the few environments where there is sufficient heat and pressure to break the atmospheric nitrogen molecule down to a point that it reacts with oxygen and forms nitrous oxides (NOx). When nitrogen oxide products enter the lube oil through normal blow-by, they react with any moisture present in the lube and become very acidic, rapidly accelerating the oxidation rate of the oil. Proper bypass filtration can control the effects of nitration in the same ways it controls oxidation. And again, using cleaner engine oil as a seal between the ring and liner, blow-by of NOx components can be kept to a minimum in the first place.
There is three MAJOR conditions caused contaminants that are formed within the lube oil during normal use: Oxidation, Nitration, and Acid. These contaminants are formed when solid and moisture contaminants are present, and certain operating conditions exist within the engine. Consequently, it is imperative that these contaminants be removed from the system as fast as possible.
a) Oxidation: Oxidation occurs when the hydrocarbon constituents (and other products) of lube oil chemically combine with oxygen. Engine oil will combine with available oxygen under certain conditions to form a wide variety of oxidation products. Many of these direct or primary oxidation products combine with other materials such as wear metals, solid contamination, and moisture, to form second and third derivative products. As with most chemical reactions, oil oxidation is accelerated by heat and pressure. Heat, in particular, will speed up the oxidation process. Various studies have shown that lube oxidation rates (with many variables such as the lubricant and additive package in the lubricant) can be doubled for every 15 to 20 degrees increase over 180 degrees F. Also, engine loads, which will influence the levels of oxygen and pressure within the engine, can accelerate acid formation, corrosion, oil thickening, deposit formation, and accelerated wear.
Solid contaminants tend to hold heat, thereby increasing the temperature of the oil around the solid contamination. Combine this effect with the presence of moisture (H2O) from normal condensation, and the oxidation process accelerates even faster. When moisture is present in the lubrication system, the level of oxygen available to mix with hydrocarbons in the lube oil is raised dramatically. The presence of normal solid and moisture contamination, combined with demanding operating loads of the equipment, will produce high oil oxidation rates, even with normal oil temperatures.
All top quality lube oils have an additive package that contains oxidation inhibitors to slow the oxidation process as well as alkaline detergents that will neutralize acids formed by oxidation. Normally these additives will only last a certain length of time before they are depleted and the oil must be drained.
There are very few bypass systems that can step to the plate to control all the contamination problems of the engines oil. Eliminating the contaminants reduces oxidation and preserves the additive pack.
Remember, some engines will use a certain, very limited amount of oil each operating day. This minor amount needs to be replaced. This limited quantity of new oil, combined with the "top off" oil added at the time the bypass filter is changed, will maintain a sufficient amount of active additives to keep oxidation in check indefinitely.
b) Nitration: The combustion chambers of engines provide one of the few environments where there is sufficient heat and pressure to break the atmospheric nitrogen molecule down to a point that it reacts with oxygen and forms nitrous oxides (NOx). When nitrogen oxide products enter the lube oil through normal blow-by, they react with any moisture present in the lube and become very acidic, rapidly accelerating the oxidation rate of the oil. Proper bypass filtration can control the effects of nitration in the same ways it controls oxidation. And again, using cleaner engine oil as a seal between the ring and liner, blow-by of NOx components can be kept to a minimum in the first place.
I just don't' see it. If I weren't an Amsoil dealer I would be using a by-pass filter. Do you have to do analysis? Not really. Change out those filters and top off with good oil and time is not a problem.
I had 3 years on the F150 and barely 30,000 on the oil. So time didn't really seem to be a problem. If I were to follow the manufactures specs. I would have been changing every 3-4 months regardless of miles. That's 9 oil changes that I eleminated.
Practical applications have not shown a real reduction in soluble oxidation and nitration by-products in motor oils using by-pass filtration.
I don't argue with the fact that getting any solids out of oil as quickly as possible is a good benefit. Nor will I argue they will help your oil last a bit longer - but I still contend the oil should be dumped at least annually - regardless.
Acids are not filtered out either - so sure adding oil is smart to keep the TBN in check.
I don't argue with the fact that getting any solids out of oil as quickly as possible is a good benefit. Nor will I argue they will help your oil last a bit longer - but I still contend the oil should be dumped at least annually - regardless.
Acids are not filtered out either - so sure adding oil is smart to keep the TBN in check.
I agree with you on that. Although carbon has less specific heat than motor oil, it's the heterogenity, the thickening of the oil due to carbon particles that greatly inhibits convection. Combine that with thin layers of varnish coating the inside of the motor acting as a layer of thermal insulation. This reduces the heat transfer even further. A bypass filter would no doubtedly help remove varnish and the carbon buildup thus restoring the oil's heat transfer ability. The better heat transferring not only helps cool the engine but also keeps the oil cooler.
At least on my car, the cleaner oil with bypass filtration greatly reduced oil burning. If an engine oil is observed as it gets progressively dirty the oil consumption increases the dirtier the oil is. One of the reasons for this is that the oil is cooler and therefore less flashes off hot engine parts. Not meaning to derail your original argument, Msparks, I also agree that the new additives in the added quart of top off oil after a filter replacement help increase the additives back to their appropriate levels. There are several case studies with bypass filters done by DOT that illustrate this fact.
The advantage of a submicronic bypass filter is the filter gets dirty instead of the oil. As far as oil change intervals what oil you use doesn't mean anything. It's how well you are able to keep the oil clean. Unless something drastic happens with that engine like a leaky head gasketyou should never need to drain the oil again. I gave up dirty oil and oil drains over fifty years ago.
Install a TP filter and change it about every 3,000 miles, change the full flow filter about every 2 years. I would use a sandwich adapter on that engine. If you have an automatic transmission it will need a submicronic bypass filter also. Transmission fluid can be dirtier than motor oil. After the filter cleans the wear particles from the gears, bands and clutches the wear rate will drop and the TP will only need to be changed every couple of years or so. When I change the ATF filter on my Ford diesel it is usually to check for wear before a long trip. If I don't see a lot of large particles I know the transmission is good.
Ralph
Install a TP filter and change it about every 3,000 miles, change the full flow filter about every 2 years. I would use a sandwich adapter on that engine. If you have an automatic transmission it will need a submicronic bypass filter also. Transmission fluid can be dirtier than motor oil. After the filter cleans the wear particles from the gears, bands and clutches the wear rate will drop and the TP will only need to be changed every couple of years or so. When I change the ATF filter on my Ford diesel it is usually to check for wear before a long trip. If I don't see a lot of large particles I know the transmission is good.
Ralph
Ralph,
Why the TP change interval for ATF can be as long as 2 years? Doesn't ATF like motor oil have additives, which will wear out over time due to heat?
Why the TP change interval for ATF can be as long as 2 years? Doesn't ATF like motor oil have additives, which will wear out over time due to heat?
As Pablo said, "Practical applications have not shown a real reduction in soluble oxidation and nitration by-products in motor oils using by-pass filtration."
Is adding 1 quart of oil during TP change sufficient enough to eliminate the need to dump oil annually? Some members of this board claim they never dump oil with bypass filters. I would love not to dump oil annually. However, I want to know if this is a really good practice???
Is adding 1 quart of oil during TP change sufficient enough to eliminate the need to dump oil annually? Some members of this board claim they never dump oil with bypass filters. I would love not to dump oil annually. However, I want to know if this is a really good practice???
I wouldn't waste my time/money on a bypass fiter system. Oils are incredible now, and engines are so efficient and clean, that there just isn't anything to be gained.
Change your oil and filter a little more often, so you'll sleep better, and buy a new pillow with the money you just saved.
Change your oil and filter a little more often, so you'll sleep better, and buy a new pillow with the money you just saved.
The advantage of a bypass filter usually goes to the seller of the unit.
OTOH - bypass filtering is the only way to go for long haul trucks, IMHO!
In all honesty bypass filters keep the oil cleaner.
Transmission fluid is like gear oil. As long as it is clean and hasn't been heated beyond it's limit it doesn't need to be drained. Some stock ATF filters are better than others but none of them are any good. If you are able to keep the fluid clean with submicronic filtration and it still is over heated you probably also need an oil cooler. As a rule of thumb if the fluid looks and smells like new oil with a submicronic filte installed you are doing it right. Additives aren't used up in clean fluids. A good transmission man can tell about how long your transmission will last by checking the fluid temperature. It is amazing that something as precision as an automatic transmission doesn't come with a filter that cleans oil.
I put a Perma-Cool ATR filter on a Dodge Cummins then added a Motor Guard to finish cleaning the fluid. It is a dual remote filter. It is the same system as the engine uses. The Dodge has a lifetime fill fluid. Perma-Cool recommends a 50,000 mile filter change interval. That would be about right for the Motor Guard. Just change them both at 50,000 miles. Probably over kill because the filters only need to deal with wear particles off the gears, bands and clutches. These trucks normally have good oil coolers. Over heated fluid can clog the filter but it is very rare.
Ralph
This reply may be a little late, but the subject is very interesting to me. I run one on my business van. I bought a Ford Windstar with 3.8 eng. with 73,000 miles. Installed the bypass filter and started with Penzoil 10W30. With 63K on the oil I noticed a bit of sludge on the oil cap, when I added oil. In a few miles I changed it and took a sample for testing. I put 15W40 HD diesel oil in, and have approx. 33,000 miles on that. The oil cap has cleared up and looks good. BTW the anlysis showed oxidation. The oil I now have in is blended locally, and is used by many OTR trucks in this area, some of which are running the bypass filter. Some of them run over 100,000 miles per year, with ONE (1) oil change. I took a sample analysis to the office of the oil co. and showed it to them. Their remark was "your additive package numbers are higher than our new oil." Must be a pretty good combination.
[ June 19, 2005, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: JHZR2 ]
[ June 19, 2005, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: JHZR2 ]
Quote:
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"your additive package numbers are higher than our new oil."
__________
I don't see this as saying much about the oil's condition from use, but rather I sense it's referencing the oil's add pack formulation.
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"your additive package numbers are higher than our new oil."
__________
I don't see this as saying much about the oil's condition from use, but rather I sense it's referencing the oil's add pack formulation.
Their remark was "your additive package numbers are higher than our new oil." Must be a pretty good combination.
sounds like the lab has errors ..BTW Big rig truckers have 30-40 quart sumps so going 100000 miles on an oil change with a bypass isn't as tough as you doing it with your van and its 6 quart sump ....I have gone as far as 44000 in my car with out a full change with bypass and could ahve easily gone longer.
sounds like the lab has errors ..BTW Big rig truckers have 30-40 quart sumps so going 100000 miles on an oil change with a bypass isn't as tough as you doing it with your van and its 6 quart sump ....I have gone as far as 44000 in my car with out a full change with bypass and could ahve easily gone longer.
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