ADBV, standpipe, running a big filter inverted etc

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I have been a long time reader and this is my first post. I have an ’07 Toyota 4Runner with a 1GR-FE V6. I went looking for a bigger filter and ended up going down a long road. I wanted to share and get input from some of the experts here. I doubt there’s any other place where people are this “into” filters… Some of the below is a copy/paste from my posts at the Toyota forums and then modified to more general language for here. I am really looking forward to feedback and learning something! :)

My goal was to come up with some larger filter options that would allow for a slight increased oil capacity AND take advantage of the 1GRFE’s filter position (right behind the fan stream). A larger exterior surface would, IMHO allow for slightly more heat transfer. I think the benefit of a larger filter on my application would be cooler oil, more filtration media and slightly more oil.


The quick, knee-jerk reaction would be to spin-on a PL30001, PH8A, Toyota 15600-41010 or 90915-TD004 (big LC filter), Napa 1515 or similar. If I didn’t want to go that big maybe a PH3600 or PL20195… Easy enough and done, right? Well not so fast. A few quick reads (primarily at the FJCruiser forums, FJC uses the same engine) revealed that due to our super-sweet oil filter location the filters seem to drain out. They seem to drain out overnight (or longer) and there was talk of delays with the oil pressure rising and some noise.


The focus would then seem to be quality of the ADBV but no conclusive answers were found at that forum. Many returned to stock or slightly larger but nothing like the physical room would allow for. I don’t doubt that the ADBV is important but I wasn’t willing to leave it there… (IMHO the smaller volume of the stock sized filter means that if it does drain it refills quickly.)

The next thing that entered into my mind was a 4Runner’s blown engine due, in part (we think) to an Amsoil EOA57 filter. In researching and postulating over his trials and tribulations I concluded the following: 1) Yes, the obvious, why try to go that long on a filter, blah, blah, blah. He was following a non-traditional but reliably sourced alternative program. 2) If the bypass pressure of the EAO57 was lower he might not have blown the engine. Would he have had good filtration and adequate protection? Unlikely, he needed more media (bigger filter). If I got it right Hastings and Amsoil filters are closely related. The EAO57 is probably the Hastings LF494 (which is unfortunate). It has a 20psi bypass and is the filter Hastings “thinks” LF494 replaces the OE 90915-20004 and –YZZD3. The EAO57 is the filter that had issues that caused Amsoil to issue a TSB… By Hastings own catalog when you look up a 1GRFE filter it lists a LF589 which has an 14psi bypass, not a 20psi. Maybe the whole fiasco is a GIGO issue, maybe the 14psi is the correct number. Maybe, if the Toyota OE filters really bypasses at 20psi, Toyota needs to revisit that especially in light of oils getting thinner and the TSB authorizing 5w-20 in many of it’s engines. Either way something doesn’t seem right to me.

I decided I wanted a bigger filter that would have the following attributes:
a) 1st class, reliable name brand.
b) Larger, taller etc.
c) A bypass lower than 20psi. (Most of the 1GRFE filters I looked at had a bypass rating of between 8 & 17psi. I’d like to be on the lower-end of that but that’s my choice.) With lots of media there’s no reason to have a high bypass pressure and it’s very unlikely you’d ever need to bypass.Plz educate me if I am misunderstanding something.
d) No “dry starts” or delays in building oil pressure.
 
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In studying different filters I came across an interesting feature on some filters that go on Perkins motors, a standpipe. The standpipe extends more than halfway into the filter. A standpipe in conjunction with an anti-drainback would/should prevent any drainback beyond what could occur with the OE-sized filter (which doesn’t have a standpipe).
4filtersS.jpg


BT215insideS.jpg


1460insideS.jpg


I am currently running the Napa 1460. My initial report is good, no dry starts, the filter feels and looks like a very high quality unit. Next up will be the BT215. Both of these filters are smaller in diameter than the PL30001 but DO incorporate a standpipe in addition to the anti-drainback valve. In all fairness, the few who use the K&N and the PL20195 report no issues too. So why do this? I am looking for a big filter that will never require more to fill up than an OE filter (after initial fill of course).
1460onEngS.jpg


BT215onEngS.jpg


Next up will be the PL30001 sized BT216 and Napa 1806. If anyone else wants to jump in and report back… hint, hint:)

Some more random pics…
4fromTopS.jpg


4filtersS.jpg


Chris
 
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Ok, some time has passed… This is my follow-up.

I am pretty sold on the standpipe design being the ‘magic bullet’ for bigger filters on our 1GR-FE’s. It seems a high-quality ADBV is important but with no standpipe there’s still some drainback issues. With a standpipe the 1GR-FE produces oil pressure almost instantly with my Eneos 5w-20, hot or cold. I admittedly jammed in some trials and didn’t leave any of the filters on long enough to conclusively say if one is better than the other. I did spin on a premium, non-standpipe big filter and it drained fairly quickly and I could see the delay on start-up. (FYI- Denso Land Cruiser filter, 15600-41010, it’s a PL30001/PH8a sized filter.) There is no doubt in my mind the standpipe is real and it works for our application.

I, for reasons of my own, including the blown V6 story in the previous post prefer low bypass pressures. Below are some crosses to standpipe designed filters that you may be interested in. All have a low bypass pressure threshold except the 1460Napa/51460Wix which has a 14(15)-17psi bypass which should be fine for the 1GR-FE. I don’t know how you’d ever clog it to need the bypass. All others bypass in the 8-12psi range.

Filter choice(s) #1 is the 3” diameter and 5”+/- in the length category. (Look at PureOne PL20195/Napa 1516 for a visual comparison.) If you like this size some good options are the Baldwin BT215**, Napa 1460**, Wix 51460, Donaldson P554408, Fram PH2895, Purolator L30138 and I am sure there’s others.

Filter choice(s) #2 is the 3.7”diameter and 5”+/- category. (Look at a PureOne PL30001, Fram PH8a, Napa 1515 etc. for a visual comparison). Some good options that include a standpipe are: Baldwin BT216, Napa 1806**, Wix 51806, Donaldson P554403, Mann W940/24, Purolator L30137, Fram PH2821A and I’m sure there’s others… I will run this class due to ease of purchase; between Grainger and Napa they’re easy to buy.

Filter choice(s) #3 is the 3.7”diameter and 7”+/- category. This is for those who just have to have the biggest one out there. Some good standpipe options are the Baldwin BT237, Napa 1459**, Wix 51459, Donaldson P554407, Fram PH977A, Mann 850/7, Purolator L40107 and I’m sure there’s more…

**These are the only filters that I have seen with my own eyes and confirmed the standpipe, I am however fairly confident in the numbers I provided. Just remember I am not claiming 100% accuracy but, hey, your reading stuff on the internet. Of course you’ll approach it with some skepticism:)

The one thing that seems consistent as I searched out choices is the Perkins spec. Perkins seems to = standpipe. Why? No clue… It is a correlation though. I need to read more about commercial filters too. For example Fram & Purolator low-end filters don’t have that good of a reputation and I wonder if the commercial line is the same.

Below are a few of pics to clarify what the standpipe is and what it does.

This is the two I cut open side-by-side:
BothS.jpg
 
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This is the Baldwin BT215. Subjectively the components and filter media seemed ok. Nothing about this filter made me say “wow, this is great”, nothing made me say “what a POS”.
You can see how the oil (assuming the anti-drainback valve holds) can’t drain below a certain point. That means this filter, after initial fill, should never take more than the smallest OE filter to refill and then build oil pressure.
BT215Cut.jpg


This is the Napa1459. It’s a better design IMHO with better quality housing and materials. The media itself was very similar. You can see the Wix approach to stapipe is a bit different. To me it looks like it would flow oil through the media more evenly than the oil would flow through the BT215’s media. I think the BT215 would work fine, I just like the Napa better.
NapaCut.jpg


The bypass hole on the Napa looks too small to me but I’m sure it’s fine… That’s the only negative of the Napa.
Napa1459Bypass.jpg


BT215 bypass hole:
BTBypass.jpg



Hope this is of interest...

If anyone knows where to buy the Mann Filters please post it up!
 
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First I am not an internet expert. Second, just use a proper rated oil and the recommended Toyota oil filter. That is it ,the longest lasting engines are the ones that have the oil changed at proper intervals with no magic oils ,no magic filters ,no magic snake oils etc.
 
You certainly have thought this through.

The only comment I would add is that I'm always amazed that used oil doesn't flow very freely through the media of used filters... that is... if I take one off and leave it open side down on my oil pan for a month when I go to cut it open the area between the filter media and the metal wall seems full of oil. This is on Champ, Puro and Wix. I would have thought it would at least seep through the media at a decent rate and out the core. So in my experience sure a larger filter would take more time to fill the area in the core of the filter, but not the bulk of the area between the media and the outer wall which in my experience stays full. But, your applications are different so if I were in your shoes I would try this myself after your next oil change.

Amazon.com is the only place I've seen mann filters.
 
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Originally Posted By: bepperb
You certainly have thought this through.

The only comment I would add is that I'm always amazed that used oil doesn't flow very freely through the media of used filters... that is... if I take one off and leave it open side down on my oil pan for a month when I go to cut it open the area between the filter media and the metal wall seems full of oil. So true! I generally pierce my old filter with a nail and let it drain for a couple of days before I toss it for this reason. This is on Champ, Puro and Wix. I would have thought it would at least seep through the media at a decent rate and out the core. I agree and it is peculiar... So in my experience sure a larger filter would take more time to fill the area in the core of the filter, but not the bulk of the area between the media and the outer wall which in my experience stays full. But, your applications are different so if I were in your shoes I would try this myself after your next oil change.

Amazon.com is the only place I've seen mann filters.


Thanks for the feedback... I have searched Amazon and found some Mann filters but not the one I need
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I'll keep looking and given the ease of Donaldson (through Amsoil) I need to read more on those too.

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They form a vacuum with the saturated media. It will pull a certain oil column. If you manipulate the ADBV you'll break the vacuum and the cached oil will drain.

The stand pipe prevents the filter from draining forward. I nice feature for higher mounted filters.
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Napa1459Bypass.jpg


How big is the ID of the threaded stud? About the same?
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Otherwise, you've done a great amount of research. Not much else to say.
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Originally Posted By: H25B
...maybe a PH3600 or PL20195… ...

FYI:
The PL25230 seems to be the same specs as the PL20195 except has anti-drainback valves on both the inlet and outlet.

Just make sure your filter mount threaded nipple isn't excessively long, because the outlet ADBV opens toward it with normal operating oil flow, and must have clearance to fully open. That shouldn't be an issue though.

Note the ADBV in the threaded hole in the picture
PL25230
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
The stand pipe prevents the filter from draining forward. I nice feature for higher mounted filters.
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It seems to be...

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
How big is the ID of the threaded stud? About the same?
56.gif


DUH! Of course, so simple... I'll measure next time I have the filter off. It's a regular 3/4-16 thread so...

Originally Posted By: river_rat
The PL25230 seems to be the same specs as the PL20195 except has anti-drainback valves on both the inlet and outlet.

Next time I have a filter off I'll measure how far the threaded nipple protrudes. The PL25230 may be another good choice for the 4Runner. Thanks RiverRat.
 
Originally Posted By: H25B

Next time I have a filter off I'll measure how far the threaded nipple protrudes. The PL25230 may be another good choice for the 4Runner. Thanks RiverRat.

Very welcome.
I have one cut open. I'll post pictures of the mechanism threaded onto my spare remote oil filter mount so you can see the mipple depth measurements and all that.
I gotta run right now though.
 
The outlet valve has to open about to the pencil mark on the side of the pencil to be full open for maximum oil flow.

The nipple on my mount extends just about ¾ inch past the face where the gasket seals and still allows the valve to open fully.

baseplate-1.jpg

inside.jpg

insideopen.jpg

fullopen.jpg

fullopenmounted-1.jpg

nippleheight.jpg
 
Yes. Very light. IMO, should make no significant difference in overall pressure drop.
Just enough should hold a head of oil after shutdown.

BTW, Mahle OC-47 filter is same size, same inlet/outlet type valve, too, but I don't remember what the bypass setting is on the Mahle.
 
I do see the PL25230 is specified for a list of 4 cylinder engines in the Purolator website's list of where it fits.
Makes me wonder if the flow will still be as good as a ""20195 based on valve opening (not spring tension) in a 6 or 8 cylinder engine?

I might run one on my VW with the oil pressure gauge sometime to see if there is any pressure difference.
 
Thanks for this info H25B! I have been looking for an oversized filter for my 05 Tacoma that can handle 10k OCI. Can these stand pipe filters be run horizontally? (05 Highlander 3.3L) or should I just got with a Napa 1515?
 
Absolutely... By being 'other-than-vertical' you lose nothing but you don't gain as much (if anything). I'm not familiar with a 3.3L's oil filter so I can't speculate if it'll help, it won't be worse:)

Now, from a $$$ standpoint the 1515 might be a better bargain, I'm pretty sure they are cheaper.
 
Originally Posted By: H25B

You can see how the oil (assuming the anti-drainback valve holds) can’t drain below a certain point. That means this filter, after initial fill, should never take more than the smallest OE filter to refill and then build oil pressure.
BT215Cut.jpg



Interesting concept ... but, what would make me a little nervous is that the oil will mainly want to flow through the filter media that is next to the holed area in the center tube - flow always wants to take the path of least resistance. Therefore, the actual effective filtering area could be much smaller than the full area it really is. Also, hope the engineer put enough hole area in the partial Swiss cheesed center tube to accommodate required flow rates

As you said, this concept will only work IF the ADBV seals 100%. IMO, even in filters without a stand pipe, a good ADBV (ie, silicone) will still retain a lot of oil in the filter ... even on base down, vertical filters.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
The media only touches the center well at the point of the pleat.


I hear ya, and agree. But IMO there will still be more flow trying to go through the media that is next to the holed area in the center tube.

BT215Cut.jpg


An analogy would be opening a wide house window only 5 inches that has a screen on it and a breeze blowing on the window. Most of the air entering the house will enter the screen that is adjacent to the 5" open window slot.

I think on a filter design like this, most of the oil flow will be in the upper section of the filter element ... until that section starts to load up, then the other lower sections would start flowing more. I'd rather have full even flow over the whole media area if I had the choice.
 
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