ADBV needed if filter is vertical?

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Wasn't that the reason gm made the switch to the PF46< Because it has an ADBV!

FWIW, when I remove my filter with the ADBV, I get alot of oil that drains from the threaded hole on the block, telling me that that the ADBVworked to hold the oil above the filter from flowing backwards
 
May have already been mentioned but the ADBV also keeps oil in the return line. So oil gets to the engine faster at startup.
 
Originally Posted By: labman
Originally Posted By: sayjac
However, if a filter application is in a verticle thread up position(excluding engines w/ internal adbv), is an adbv essential? Clearly the oil in the filter can't drain back with gravity.


Maybe. If it is a good tight system, the column of oil between it and the pump could pull it out in a siphon.


In the case of a small block Chevy, the oil filter location looks to be below the oil level in the sump, so I highly doubt the filter could get siphoned by the oil draining from the oil passages back to the sump. Only the oil passages down stream of the filter might get evacuated to some degree by draining with time, but highly doubt the filter would.
 
AFAIK, Subaru specs a short filter to avoid having it absorb heat from the exhaust headers which surround the space through which the filter is installed.
These same pipes make removal a real treat, assuming you like first and second degree burns, as well as nice gashes from the sharp edges of the heat shields.
The learning curve on R&Ring the Subie's oil filter was quite steep for me. Once bitten twice shy.
Another factor might be to ensure that the filter not stick down in harm's way.
Be a shame to break that puppy off on a rock or a snowbank.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
AFAIK, Subaru specs a short filter to avoid having it absorb heat from the exhaust headers which surround the space through which the filter is installed.


Also Subaru's way of heating up the oil faster on cold days.
wink.gif
lol.gif


Someone should come up with a chromed slip on cover for the filter to keep the radiative heat transfer way down.
 
Facts. Relevant only to GMC fleet ownership.

All our 3500 Savanas have 3/8 inch oil cooler lines running above the filter mount. A ton of oil is in these.

Even after sitting for DAYS, if you remove the filter (with no ADBV) those lines will flow oil for many seconds and then drip for hours.

All the theorizing here is just wacky, there is no way a low mounted vertical thread filter is going to allow all the oil to drain back into a sump. It can only siphon if it is higher than the place it drains to.

Doesn't happen on 4.8/5.3/6.0 GM motors.

Who here has a vertically mounted filter threads up that drains itself dry when sitting? Anyone?
 
Quote:
Who here has a vertically mounted filter threads up that drains itself dry when sitting? Anyone?


It can't. Once the centerwell is breached ..and I don't care how high or low the thing is mounted, sooner or later (some point where the air can pass through the limited exposed media) the vacuum is going to let air break any siphon.
 
So, Gary, in other words, on my Subaru at least, it doesn't matter if there's an ADBV or not? I understand the H6 engine has a horizontally mounted filter that needs a valve, so that's why the OEMs have one ( one size fits all ) but I would be good to go with a P1?
 
Originally Posted By: Seguino
I understand the H6 engine has a horizontally mounted filter that needs a valve, so that's why the OEMs have one ( one size fits all ) but I would be good to go with a P1?


Like I said earlier, if Purolator specifically specifies your car in their application table for a filter without a ADBV then why not use it?
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Facts. Relevant only to GMC fleet ownership.

All our 3500 Savanas have 3/8 inch oil cooler lines running above the filter mount. A ton of oil is in these.

Even after sitting for DAYS, if you remove the filter (with no ADBV) those lines will flow oil for many seconds and then drip for hours.

All the theorizing here is just wacky, there is no way a low mounted vertical thread filter is going to allow all the oil to drain back into a sump. It can only siphon if it is higher than the place it drains to.

Doesn't happen on 4.8/5.3/6.0 GM motors.

Who here has a vertically mounted filter threads up that drains itself dry when sitting? Anyone?


My Toyota suedo lawn mower engine in the Prius holds the oil over the vertical, low mounted, threads up, filter for at least 12-24 hours, as that is how long I drain the oil most of the time now. Lots of oil in the passages above the filter comes out when filter is taken off. There is just surface tension and the adbv to hold the oil above the filter. On The GM engines without filter adbv, I suspect there is a check valve between the oil pump and filter inlet, same effect as the filter adbv. I saw this described in an old auto mechanics book, not theory, not made up in an armchair. They described the two types, in filter, and in engine. They knew the dangers of dry running while the oil lines/filter fill up as well 50 years ago as we do now. From my armchair, without GM engine drawings, I bet there is a check valve holding the oil from returning to the pan.
 
Originally Posted By: Seguino
So, Gary, in other words, on my Subaru at least, it doesn't matter if there's an ADBV or not? I understand the H6 engine has a horizontally mounted filter that needs a valve, so that's why the OEMs have one ( one size fits all ) but I would be good to go with a P1?


No. You need one to slow the back flow. There's nothing to prevent your horizontal mount from emptying either with or without ..at least to a high percentage. With an ADBV you'll eventually form a vacuum that will retain some fluid. At that point the media is a very restrictive oil bath air cleaner.
 
Sorry, Gary, I think I misled you with my question. I have the H4 with a vertical filter, so I don't need the ADBV, right? The H6 uses the same filter, I believe,but it is horizontal, so the OEM filter has the ADBV. Cheers. Completely off topic, but anyone like Steve Earle music? I'm off to see him in half an hour.
 
Originally Posted By: Seguino
I have the H4 with a vertical filter, so I don't need the ADBV, right? The H6 uses the same filter, I believe,but it is horizontal, so the OEM filter has the ADBV.


What does Purolator's fitment info show for your Subaru? ... with or without a ADBV?
 
Purolator's site shows nothing available for my model, although similar models with the same engine that use the same OEM filter show a 14612 oil filter, which has the ADBV but a 13PSI bypass. The 14660 with the 23PSI bypass ( that's the one the Subaru forums say to use ) has no ADBV so I can have the ADBV or the 23PSI bypass but not both.
 
Quote:
I have the H4 with a vertical filter, so I don't need the ADBV, right?


If it spec's one, you surely do. The point is.... in a vertical mount ... the ADBV has nothing to do with "keeping the filter full" and everything to do with keeping the media from back flushing in an uncontrolled and unthrottled manner. Those vertical mounts that do not spec an ADBV are oriented or configured where there is no substantial oil column above them to facilitate back flushing.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
I have the H4 with a vertical filter, so I don't need the ADBV, right?


If it spec's one, you surely do. The point is.... in a vertical mount ... the ADBV has nothing to do with "keeping the filter full" and everything to do with keeping the media from back flushing in an uncontrolled and unthrottled manner. Those vertical mounts that do not spec an ADBV are oriented or configured where there is no substantial oil column above them to facilitate back flushing.


OK I get it now. Thanks. Better late than never. Sounds like Subaru owners should stick with OEM. It appears to be the only one with ADBV AND 23PSI bypass.
 
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