I have been under the impression that dexos1 replaced 4718 and 6094.
AC Delco dexos1
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I understood 4718M requirement can only be met with a Full Synthetic oil.
If you can get dexos1 in other than Full Synthetic oil, like the AC Delco blend, as has been pointed out doesn't mean it meets GM4718M.
If you can get dexos1 in other than Full Synthetic oil, like the AC Delco blend, as has been pointed out doesn't mean it meets GM4718M.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
If you can get dexos1 in other than Full Synthetic oil, like the AC Delco blend, as has been pointed out doesn't mean it meets GM4718M.
I guess I don't appreciate the subtle nuances in the statement which appears on the back of the ACDelco dexos1 syn blend:
"...dexos1 is suitable in use for GM vehicles requiring the following previous specifications GM6094M and GM4718M".
Don't we agree this implies that one is permitted (i.e. for warranty purposes) to use this dealership syn blend in...for example any...corvette?
Please show me a link in which GM distinguishes between a dexos1 syn blend and a dexos1 Full Synthetic.
If you can get dexos1 in other than Full Synthetic oil, like the AC Delco blend, as has been pointed out doesn't mean it meets GM4718M.
I guess I don't appreciate the subtle nuances in the statement which appears on the back of the ACDelco dexos1 syn blend:
"...dexos1 is suitable in use for GM vehicles requiring the following previous specifications GM6094M and GM4718M".
Don't we agree this implies that one is permitted (i.e. for warranty purposes) to use this dealership syn blend in...for example any...corvette?
Please show me a link in which GM distinguishes between a dexos1 syn blend and a dexos1 Full Synthetic.
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Anybody else think this is confusing by design?
I think it’s the result of compromise. In defining a single oil for all applications, GM was faced with balancing cost against requirements. In this case, some of the performance of 4718M was given up to minimize the cost impact. Unfortunately, following this one oil approach will have some engines operating with oils that fall below the performance level of the oils with which they were originally designed and tested (dexos1 is not better than or equal to GM4718M in every category). But it’s similar to the API’s one-size-for-all approach, where only one performance level is defined (except for the additional “resource conserving” rating).
As an aside the GM4718M spec is probably obsolete, meaning GM will no longer approve any oils to those requirements. So any new formulation SN oil can’t officially meet all GM4718M requirements (which included GM approval/licensing).
The marketing of oil seems to be changing, and I believe we may see more of this type of wording (which isn’t new). I’m aware of one High Mileage oil from a major supplier that makes no reference to any API requirement on the bottle or in the product data sheet. On the website, they simply say that the oil is “suitable for use where API SM, SL and SJ is recommended”.
Perhaps we’ve reached a point where oil suppliers are questioning the value of API approvals in some cases. Confusing? Yes. Confusing by design? Probably not.
As an aside the GM4718M spec is probably obsolete, meaning GM will no longer approve any oils to those requirements. So any new formulation SN oil can’t officially meet all GM4718M requirements (which included GM approval/licensing).
The marketing of oil seems to be changing, and I believe we may see more of this type of wording (which isn’t new). I’m aware of one High Mileage oil from a major supplier that makes no reference to any API requirement on the bottle or in the product data sheet. On the website, they simply say that the oil is “suitable for use where API SM, SL and SJ is recommended”.
Perhaps we’ve reached a point where oil suppliers are questioning the value of API approvals in some cases. Confusing? Yes. Confusing by design? Probably not.
For most GM applications the distinction is likely academic.
If you have a Corvette, Cadillac or Camero where the FF Mobil 1 5w30 is still specified, it would be prudent to at least stick with a Full Synthetic oil if one is going to go with another dexos1 labeled brand.
If I'm not mistaken, the 4718M requirement was primarily about high temperature oxidation resistance. This would only be an issue in track applications. High oil temp's tend to trigger the OCM and prompt an otherwise premature oil change anyway.
If you have a Corvette, Cadillac or Camero where the FF Mobil 1 5w30 is still specified, it would be prudent to at least stick with a Full Synthetic oil if one is going to go with another dexos1 labeled brand.
If I'm not mistaken, the 4718M requirement was primarily about high temperature oxidation resistance. This would only be an issue in track applications. High oil temp's tend to trigger the OCM and prompt an otherwise premature oil change anyway.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
For most GM applications the distinction is likely academic.
Maybe so but it would be interesting to quiz GM re the implications of that short statement found on the back of their in house dexos1 bottle.
For most GM applications the distinction is likely academic.
Maybe so but it would be interesting to quiz GM re the implications of that short statement found on the back of their in house dexos1 bottle.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
Keep in mind that the subject AC Delco oil does not meet GM4718M. Read the label carefully. The oil producer is suggesting it's suitable for use in applications that require GM4718M.
Many oil producers have used similar language in the past, and the use of such potentially confusing statements has been discussed here before. In the case of GM4718M, this might be the first case of any oil other than a "Full Synthetic" being recommended for use where a GM4718M oil is required.
So now I'm confused. Has dexos1 supplanted GM4718M?
Or will the Full Synthetic oils like M1 continue to carry the 4718M designation?
This MAY help folks decide, http://www.sandyblogs.com/techlink/2010/09/the-new-gm-dexos-engine-oil-specification.html
I read it as "if Dexos 1 oil is not available, I can use any other oil rated for 4718 if I need to but GM recommends Dexos 1". So a 4718 oil will not void my warranty if I was required to use a Dexos 1 oil.
Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
Keep in mind that the subject AC Delco oil does not meet GM4718M. Read the label carefully. The oil producer is suggesting it's suitable for use in applications that require GM4718M.
Many oil producers have used similar language in the past, and the use of such potentially confusing statements has been discussed here before. In the case of GM4718M, this might be the first case of any oil other than a "Full Synthetic" being recommended for use where a GM4718M oil is required.
So now I'm confused. Has dexos1 supplanted GM4718M?
Or will the Full Synthetic oils like M1 continue to carry the 4718M designation?
This MAY help folks decide, http://www.sandyblogs.com/techlink/2010/09/the-new-gm-dexos-engine-oil-specification.html
I read it as "if Dexos 1 oil is not available, I can use any other oil rated for 4718 if I need to but GM recommends Dexos 1". So a 4718 oil will not void my warranty if I was required to use a Dexos 1 oil.
Originally Posted By: NewC6
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
So now I'm confused. Has dexos1 supplanted GM4718M?
Or will the Full Synthetic oils like M1 continue to carry the 4718M designation?
"I can use any other oil rated for 4718 if I need to but GM recommends Dexos 1". So a 4718 oil will not void my warranty if I was required to use a Dexos 1 oil.
I don't believe there was any concern about the use of a GM4718M oil, the argument was that dexos1 oils may not be up to the old GM4718M requirement.
Non of this is a warranty issue since GM allows the use of any API 5w30 if "dexos1 is not available".
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
So now I'm confused. Has dexos1 supplanted GM4718M?
Or will the Full Synthetic oils like M1 continue to carry the 4718M designation?
"I can use any other oil rated for 4718 if I need to but GM recommends Dexos 1". So a 4718 oil will not void my warranty if I was required to use a Dexos 1 oil.
I don't believe there was any concern about the use of a GM4718M oil, the argument was that dexos1 oils may not be up to the old GM4718M requirement.
Non of this is a warranty issue since GM allows the use of any API 5w30 if "dexos1 is not available".
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
the argument was that dexos1 oils may not be up to the old GM4718M requirement.
That is what I would like to know ie a very cool spider graph comparison of dexos1 to 4718M.
the argument was that dexos1 oils may not be up to the old GM4718M requirement.
That is what I would like to know ie a very cool spider graph comparison of dexos1 to 4718M.
One would think that GM wouldn't recommend a sub par lubricant especially with the GM associated AC/Delco branding on the bottle.The logic says this oil semi syn as it may be is fine for use in the "4718" spec. vehicle as well as the "6094" spec.vehicle.My limited knowledge on the subject left me with the belief of both the 6094 and 4718 specs. being obsolete and replaced with the Dexos1 as a universal GM spec.I'm still looking to find this oil here in the states as i would use it with no problems in my GM application.
Is it possible that we believed 4718 was not attainable with a blend because there were no manufacturers that thought it was worth making? Now with dexos1 replacing 4718 and 6094 GM has their supplier come up with a stouter blend that does in fact meet 4718 as well as dexos1 to help refute the talk of increased maintenance costs related to dexos1?
Really with the number of vehicles speced for 4718 and the fact that GM factory filled these cars with synthetic, would anyone have sold many bottles of a 4718 blend?
Really with the number of vehicles speced for 4718 and the fact that GM factory filled these cars with synthetic, would anyone have sold many bottles of a 4718 blend?
Nothing other than a Full Synthetic has ever carried the 4718M label.
All GM engines that required it still only come with Mobil 1 5w30 as the FF.
If the AC Delco dexos1 oil actually met the 4718M requirement IMO the labeling would be unambiguous.
All GM engines that required it still only come with Mobil 1 5w30 as the FF.
If the AC Delco dexos1 oil actually met the 4718M requirement IMO the labeling would be unambiguous.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Nothing other than a Full Synthetic has ever carried the 4718M label.
All GM engines that required it still only come with Mobil 1 5w30 as the FF.
If the AC Delco dexos1 oil actually met the 4718M requirement IMO the labeling would be unambiguous.
...and the Mobil 1 that comes factory fill in those GM engines is also dexos 1 now as well. So, there isn't an issue.
Nothing other than a Full Synthetic has ever carried the 4718M label.
All GM engines that required it still only come with Mobil 1 5w30 as the FF.
If the AC Delco dexos1 oil actually met the 4718M requirement IMO the labeling would be unambiguous.
...and the Mobil 1 that comes factory fill in those GM engines is also dexos 1 now as well. So, there isn't an issue.
The issue is non Full Synthetic dexos1 oils.
Nothing has but do we conclusively know that it can't.
I don't think any 2011 GM engines require it do they?
Quote:
GM will require dexos1 for global factory fill in spark ignited engines worldwide and service fill for gasoline engines worldwide, except in Europe. It will replace the GM6094M, GM4718M and GM-LL-A-025 specifications for most GM gasoline engines.
from here; GM Tech Link
I don't think any 2011 GM engines require it do they?
Quote:
GM will require dexos1 for global factory fill in spark ignited engines worldwide and service fill for gasoline engines worldwide, except in Europe. It will replace the GM6094M, GM4718M and GM-LL-A-025 specifications for most GM gasoline engines.
from here; GM Tech Link
"MOST" engines leaves room for Full Synthetic for Corvettes.
GM's other engines, if any were in/on the 4718M list are just versions of regular Chevy engines and will do fine in the Dexos blends.
My 2¢
GM's other engines, if any were in/on the 4718M list are just versions of regular Chevy engines and will do fine in the Dexos blends.
My 2¢
I believe the 2011 Corvette manual basically says use only dexos oil, recommends Mobil 1, and adds that one can substitute an API starburst 5W30 if dexos isn't available.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
The issue is non Full Synthetic dexos1 oils.
But it isn't an issue. The ONLY GM engine requiring Full Synthetic are the Cadillac, Camaro, and Corvette. All of these come from the factory with Mobil 1, which is also dexos approved.
All other engines are dino, so running a dexos syn-blend is just fine.
I don't see the problem here.
The issue is non Full Synthetic dexos1 oils.
But it isn't an issue. The ONLY GM engine requiring Full Synthetic are the Cadillac, Camaro, and Corvette. All of these come from the factory with Mobil 1, which is also dexos approved.
All other engines are dino, so running a dexos syn-blend is just fine.
I don't see the problem here.
Here is some more info from gf-5.com
GF-5 spec vs Dexos 1
gf-5 vs dexos 1 graphically
Pennzoil Platinum is dexos 1 approved Pennzoil Platinum
GF-5 spec vs Dexos 1
gf-5 vs dexos 1 graphically
Pennzoil Platinum is dexos 1 approved Pennzoil Platinum
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