ABC: Judge dismisses Alec Baldwin's 'Rust' case after defense claims evidence was withheld.

[TiGeo]

That were fully functional firearms being passed out by a 20 something young woman fresh out of film school.

It's apparent that there is a whole lot of blame to go around. Someone pulled the trigger. Someone brought live ammo into the set. Someone hired an unqualified person to manage those firearms.

Being used as movie props like on any other movie set. In this context it's a prop and actors use them under the necessary presumption that they are not loaded with live ammo. Again I blame the armorer here and any management that had info indicating she was not competent in her role. If that was AB ok. But the actor (generic) being told to take a prop gun point it where he/she is told and pull the trigger as part of a scene or practice isn’t responsible for the safety here if they are following the rules on set.

 

[burbguy82]

not one person got shot on the set of John Wick, 1, 2, or 3

just saying

 

[TiGeo]

not one person got shot on the set of John Wick, 1, 2, or 3

just saying

And not one of those actors was checking behind the set armorer to ensure safety.

 

[ripcord]

And not one of those actors was checking behind the set armorer to ensure safety.

I'd be shocked if all of the responsibility for safety was put into the hands of one or two people in a professionally run movie set where real guns and pyrotechnics are in use. In that situation, EVERYONE attends the safety meeting. Everyone signs the safety agreement. Everyone knows what the safety rules are. Everyone has the authority to yell stop if they see a problem. Etc. Etc.

Gun safety rules aren't too complicated for actors, even children can learn and understand them.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

And not one of those actors was checking behind the set armorer to ensure safety.

How’d that work out for Brandon Lee?

I’m sorry, but either the actor has to have some responsibility, or they need to green screen all gun scenes. One can literally “safety check” a revolver simply by looking into the cylinder & then rotating it once to make sure none of the rounds in the cylinder have bullet tips present…

I’ll leave it there because any additional comments would run afoul of board rules.

 

[Carmudgeon]

Brandon Lee…Jon-Erik Hexum.

Everyone on a set has their particular role, pertaining to their area of expertise.

Baldwin, or any other actor, is no more responsible for personally inspecting a prop gun than he would have been about making sure craft services properly washes after handling raw meat, or monitors the temperature of the fridges holding that meat, so that the entire cast and crew don't get food poisoning,

Or, whether the stunt car he has to drive for the shot doesn't suffer brake failure because its lifetime fill of brake fluid was overdue for a flush (obligatory BITOG content) so that he stops in time, before plowing into something or someone.

That said, in his role as one of the producers, he does bear responsibility for hiring an inexperienced armorer who failed to do their job.

And yes, actors do receive training for safety, or skills that they aren't expected to normally possess, but that is something a production like this could not afford.

not one person got shot on the set of John Wick, 1, 2, or 3

just saying

That would be doubly embarassing for productions headed by former stunt perfomers.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

If the Pope hands me a revolver and says it's unloaded, I'm still going to check it and even then I won't point it at someone recklessly or without cause.

Anything less is negligence in my mind.

Oh please. Are you going to inspect every round loaded to run through a mini gun on a movie set? No, you're not.

 

[TiGeo]

I'd be shocked if all of the responsibility for safety was put into the hands of one or two people in a professionally run movie set where real guns and pyrotechnics are in use. In that situation, EVERYONE attends the safety meeting. Everyone signs the safety agreement. Everyone knows what the safety rules are. Everyone has the authority to yell stop if they see a problem. Etc. Etc.

Gun safety rules aren't too complicated for actors, even children can learn and understand them.

I'm sure they all do attend a safety meeting but checking the prop guns for rounds etc. as I understand it is not part of their job. If someone in the industry or with references to the contrary (that actors are to check the prop weapons for ammo type etc.) please post it.

You're an actor. You've been to the safety meeting etc. You are told to practice a scene involving pointing a prop gun at someone and pulling the trigger. The gun has been cleared as safe. Protocols tell you that you are not to recheck it. You do so and it goes bang. How are you now to blame?

 

[TiGeo]

Brandon Lee…Jon-Erik Hexum.

Everyone on a set has their particular role, pertaining to their area of expertise.

Baldwin, or any other actor, is no more responsible for personally inspecting a prop gun than he would have been about making sure craft services properly washes after handling raw meat, or monitors the temperature of the fridges holding that meat, so that the entire cast and crew don't get food poisoning,

Or, whether the stunt car he has to drive for the shot doesn't suffer brake failure because its lifetime fill of brake fluid was overdue for a flush (obligatory BITOG content) so that he stops in time, before plowing into something or someone.

That said, in his role as one of the producers, he does bear responsibility for hiring an inexperienced armorer who failed to do their job.

And yes, actors do receive training for safety, or skills that they aren't expected to normally possess, but that is something a production like this could not afford.



That would be doubly embarassing for productions headed by former stunt perfomers.

Precisely.

 

[ripcord]

I'm sure they all do attend a safety meeting but checking the prop guns for rounds etc. as I understand it is not part of their job. If someone in the industry or with references to the contrary (that actors are to check the prop weapons for ammo type etc.) please post it.

You're an actor. You've been to the safety meeting etc. You are told to practice a scene involving pointing a prop gun at someone and pulling the trigger. The gun has been cleared as safe. Protocols tell you that you are not to recheck it. You do so and it goes bang. How are you now to blame?

Edit:
I'm partially to blame because I pointed a gun at someone and pulled the trigger.

 

[TiGeo]

How’d that work out for Brandon Lee?

I’m sorry, but either the actor has to have some responsibility, or they need to green screen all gun scenes. One can literally “safety check” a revolver simply by looking into the cylinder & then rotating it once to make sure none of the rounds in the cylinder have bullet tips present…

I’ll leave it there because any additional comments would run afoul of board rules.

Clearly not well, as someone who was responsible for checking the weapons on set didn't do their job. That person was not the actor the pulled the trigger unless their job specially called out checking the prop gun to ensure the rounds were correct/cleared out before doing the scene.

 

[TiGeo]

I found this with some simple searching, seems legitimate to me. Interesting. It still lends to the fact that you as an actor aren't the one testing/checking (it does say you should test fire it under the supervision of the competent person), someone else is checking the ammo etc. Who knows what was done on the set in question but I still argue that if as an actor, I do all of this, and someone screws up and a live round is somehow loaded and I can't possibly know that following these rules exactly as they shown, and the scene has me fire at someone and it goes bang, not sure how I can be responsible IF I followed all of this or similar rules to a T and the person that is responsible (armorer) screwed up. If I didn't follow them well then of course, I am responsible.

THEATRICAL FIREARMS​

Safety Tips For Use of Firearms​

• Use simulated or dummy weapons whenever possible.
• Treat all guns as if they are loaded and deadly.
• Unless you are actually performing or rehearsing, the property master must secure all firearms.
• The property master or armorer should carefully train you in the safe use of any firearm you must handle. Be honest if you have no knowledge about guns. Do not overstate your qualifications.
• Follow all instructions given by the qualified instructor.
• Never engage in horseplay with any firearms or other weapons. Do not let others handle the gun for any reason.
• All loading of firearms must be done by the property master, armorer or experienced persons working under their direct supervision.
• Never point a firearm at anyone including yourself. Always cheat the shot by aiming to the right or left of the target character. If asked to point and shoot directly at a living target, consult with the property master or armorer for the prescribed safety procedures.
• If you are the intended target of a gunshot, make sure that the person firing at you has followed all these safety procedures.
• If you are required to wear exploding blood squibs, make sure there is a bulletproof vest or other solid protection between you and the blast packet.
• Use protective shields for all off stage cast within close proximity to any shots fired.
• Appropriate ear protection should be offered to the cast members and stage managers.
• Check the firearm every time you take possession of it. Before each use, make sure the gun has been test-fired off stage and then ask to test fire it yourself. Watch the prop master check the cylinders and barrel to be sure no foreign object or dummy bullet has become lodged inside.
• Blanks are extremely dangerous. Even though they do not fire bullets out of the gun barrel, they still have a powerful blast than can maim or kill.
• Never attempt to adjust, modify or repair a firearm yourself. If a weapon jams or malfunctions, corrections shall be made only by a qualified person.
• When a scene is completed, the property master shall unload the firearms. All weapons must be cleaned, checked and inventoried after each performance.
• Live ammunition may not be brought into the theatre.
• If you are in a production where shots are to be fired and there is no qualified property master, go to the nearest phone and call Actors' Equity Association. A union representative will make sure proper procedures are followed.
• State and federal safety laws must be honored at all times.
• If any of the above safety tips conflict with the instructions given by a qualified instructor, abide by the instructions from the qualified instructor. If you are still not sure, contact your Equity Business Representative.

Please print and post if firearms are used in production.
Additionally, to ensure compliance with the use of theatrical firearms, each Producer/Theatre must notify Equity in writing of its theatrical firearm effects and any changes made thereafter per its specific contract rules. There is a theatrical firearms questionnaire for the Producer/Theatre:

• Theatrical Firearms Questionnaire (office.com)

Please refer to the appropriate Equity contractual agreement for further details. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact your Equity Field Representative.
Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Clearly not well, as someone who was responsible for checking the weapons on set didn't do their job. That person was not the actor the pulled the trigger unless their job specially called out checking the prop gun to ensure the rounds were correct/cleared out before doing the scene.

Yes it’s a S show all the way around. All I’m saying is it sounds like after the armorer has done their job, all parties involved (armorer, actor with gun, actors on the business end of the gun, and a verifying party) should all simultaneously do the check together.

We had to follow this basic procedure when doing LOTO in the Navy on electrical equipment… seems like a logical extension of procedures that would save lives.

 

[TiGeo]

Yes it’s a S show all the way around. All I’m saying is it sounds like after the armorer has done their job, all parties involved (armorer, actor with gun, actors on the business end of the gun, and a verifying party) should all simultaneously do the check together.

We had to follow this basic procedure when doing LOTO in the Navy on electrical equipment… seems like a logical extension of procedures that would save lives.

If those protocols are industry standard which some version is/has to be (just posted an example), then yes. I have read that things were lax on this set, no idea, wasn't in the trial. Lots of industry safety protocols are like this to ensure redundancy. Not sure what LOTO is.

If AB didn't follow the procedures that were set forth for safe handling of prop firearms, he's guilty as charged. If he did and the armorer allowed a live round to be loaded that could not have been determined by the actor in question following the rules set forth, then he is not on the blame train. Either way, the CP for the firearms on set is to blame and the management that, if they knew/instances of negligence, allowed her to work there, are to blame too...just like a coal mining manager that knows there are safety issues in the mine and allows the men to work, even though they are supposed to check their work place by MSHA regs, is to blame.

 

[Furious]

If the Pope hands me a revolver and says it's unloaded, I'm still going to check it and even then I won't point it at someone recklessly or without cause.

Anything less is negligence in my mind.

This was a movie set not on the streets, not hanging with random friends, not hanging with the Pope. The armorer of a movie set is responsible to make sure no live ammo is used and no live ammo is in the weapons they hand to actors.

I bet if it was you in his situation you would be thinking different.

 

[Pablo]

In some sad inversion - this absolutely proves the gun rules are solid and work without fail.

 

[SC Maintenance]

It was a prop to him, not a gun.

Nope. Baldwin was the producer and insisted on real guns for authenticity. He wasn’t just an actor holding what he thought was a toy. That’s why they had an armorer.

Treat it as a real gun or don’t use a real gun. It’s real simple.

 

[AZjeff]

As much as people dislike Baldwin this is on the "armorer". Live ammo should never have been on the property and no way in blazes should the set guns have been off set for plinking by whoever. She was supposed to be in control of the guns and had to know what they were being used for. There's only 1 reason to hire a young inexperienced person and a lady died because someone was cheap.

Many of us who have had firearms all our life can't conceive of pointing one at a person and pulling the trigger but that's how movies are made. We follow the 4 rules of gun safety because lives depend on them when we're hunting or target shooting or whatever. They have a different set of safety rules for movie sets that must take into account non-gun savvy actors and those rules weren't followed. The rules must work as fatal events are extremely rare.

It happened in Tombstone a few years ago, one of the shootout actors apparently was using his revolver for live shooting and forgot to unload the live ammo and shot one of the other actors during a performance. One can think of a couple of safety protocols that should have been in place to prevent that.

 

[c502cid]

I'm probably mistaken but I thought Baldwin was responsible as executive producer. That includes hiring (whether directly or indirectly) the armorer. That is what I thought the case was about. Someone died over it is the sad part.

 

[dubber09]

So as an actor with potentially no knowledge of firearms, are handed a gun during filming, told it is not loaded by the person in charge of that area, told to do XYZ with it/trained on how to look like you know what you are doing, Told you are not to do anything beyond what were instructed (i.e. unloading the blanks, examine all the fake ammo, etc.) and it goes bang and this is now criminal for you personally? Who in their right mind would ever be an actor for anything involving firearms? I suppose the movie producing companies would give lots of training so all the gun scenes were double checked by the actors themselves but the amount of liability that creates is mind-blowing vs. a single person(s) "armorer" that ensures the firearms are safe for use on the set.

In that case don't give actors real guns if they cannot follow simple safety procedures. Guns are not toys, wanna use real gun then follow real safety checks.