A Subaru with Blizzaks is like cheating.

[George Bynum]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: johnachak
....... high silicone content........

Originally Posted By: Rand
....what tires have silicone in them.........

It's SILICA - a form of sand!

And you shouldn't listen too closely to advertising hype. Silica is actually detrimental for traction, but it helps in the Rolling Resistance/Treadwear/Traction equation.
Capri, I think his comment was on silicone vs silicon ... silicone (compounds) is that stuff a tire company, or anyone bonding darn near anything to darn near anything does not allow even in the parking lot if they can help it.

 

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted By: johnachak
I guess you haven't driven any of the modern American made AWD vehicles with Blizzacs. That's the point of AWD and high silicone content siped tires. Sorry to dissilusion you but Subaru isn't the be all end all. The Blizzacs can make a pinto pull like a jeep, which by the way has been 4wd since the 1940's.


Give me a break, its been a global playing field since about 1990. Pretty much figured the original post would bring out an import hater post or few. Subaru's continous and symetrical AWD system is much prefered over the typical 2WD slip-then-grip so called all wheel drive systems of some manufacturers where torque is only vectored to the two non-driving wheels after one of the two driven wheels starts to spin. The Chevy Equinox uses such a system and its laughable. So does the Honda CRV, and plenty of others.

P.S. Its disillusion, not dissilusion.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: dparm


Which car had 4WD? ;-)

In that dusting of snow it shouldn't make any difference. Whoever was driving the vehicle on the left was either playing around or an absolute moron.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit

In that dusting of snow it shouldn't make any difference. Whoever was driving the vehicle on the left was either playing around or an absolute moron.


kinda harsh.. we just got that much snow and it had 1/2" of ice under it.... people crashing all over.

 

[ron917]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit


In that dusting of snow it shouldn't make any difference. Whoever was driving the vehicle on the left was either playing around or an absolute moron.


Unless there is ice under that dusting of snow. We get conditions like that fairly often around here. The precipitation starts as rain but the ground is cold so it freezes. Then it gets colder on the back side of the storm and it turns to snow. It's deceptively dangerous - looks like there should be no problem, but you can be sideways before you know what happened.

Back on topic, we run Blizzaks on the Montana. They are awesome. There have been times when the road has turned icy (conditions as described above) and other cars started sliding off the road while the Blizzaks stayed glued down like it was dry.

AWD will get you up a hill, but doesn't help you stop or turn. That's where the winter tires help. Our driveway is very steep leading up to the road. My Outback with all seasons (Goodyear Triple Tred) can climb it in all conditions, even when the Montana with Blizzaks or previously owned Civic with studded Altimax Arctic cannot. However, once out on the road, I would rather have a 2WD vehicle with winter tires so I can stop and turn without drama.

I do have winter tires for my Outback: a set of Winterforces that came on the used steelies that I bought. They are great in snow and slush, not so much on ice. They will be replaced next winter since they are just about used up.

 

[MrHorspwer]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Originally Posted By: johnachak
I guess you haven't driven any of the modern American made AWD vehicles with Blizzacs. That's the point of AWD and high silicone content siped tires. Sorry to dissilusion you but Subaru isn't the be all end all. The Blizzacs can make a pinto pull like a jeep, which by the way has been 4wd since the 1940's.


Give me a break, its been a global playing field since about 1990. Pretty much figured the original post would bring out an import hater post or few. Subaru's continous and symetrical AWD system is much prefered over the typical 2WD slip-then-grip so called all wheel drive systems of some manufacturers where torque is only vectored to the two non-driving wheels after one of the two driven wheels starts to spin. The Chevy Equinox uses such a system and its laughable. So does the Honda CRV, and plenty of others.

P.S. Its disillusion, not dissilusion.


Just to modify your statement: The *old* Equinox was equipped with a gerotor-type AWD system that required a speed difference to activate.

The new Equinox/Terrain, as well as the Lambda vehicle, have an electronically engaged AWD system that has the capability to proactively engage before wheel slip is determined. There is some intelligence in the system and it plays really well with stability control.

 

[johnachak]

Yeah I guess you're right. I overreacted right after a heated discussion outside of the web which should have no bearing. I apologize. www.tirerack.com has the best selection of winter tires and reviews too. you can do your research there. Blizzaks are not the only ones but are the most famous.

For all you people with the silica question, here is a quote from the Blizzak ad:

"The Blizzak WS60 features a dual-compound tread with Bridgestone's silica-enhanced Tube Multicell compound layered on top of a standard winter compound."

I should have said Silica instead of silicone. Sorry again.

 

[TylerL]

Originally Posted By: Maximus1966
They call them Lesbarus around here.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-43140309/gay-friendly-cars-is-subaru-number-one/
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lesbaru

Hey thanks for sharing. I always thought the Honda Fit/Jazz was the number car for that market.

Just so people who are reading this tread know that there is nothing magical about the Bridgestone Blizzak winter tires. Other brands of winter tires offer a similar level of traction on snowy/icy roads.

 

[rpn453]

Boring? The Outback? Must have been the stability control. Disable it and you should be able to get plenty sideways.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: George Bynum
Capri, I think his comment was on silicone vs silicon ... silicone (compounds) is that stuff a tire company, or anyone bonding darn near anything to darn near anything does not allow even in the parking lot if they can help it.


There is such a thing as silicone rubber, but it is not used in tires. A common type of silicone rubber is RTV (Room Temperature Vulcanization)

 

[rjundi]

I happen to own a 2005 Subaru Legacy Wagon 5mt turbo with the no electronics AWD(45F/55R torque split) and LSD on rear nor stability control. It does wonderfully. Its a hoot to drive.

I also own an Acura MDX with a modern AWD system(SH AWD) that is essentially the next iteration of stability control. Using the stability control it actually sends power to an individual(single) rear wheel up to 100% torque. It works incredibly at keeping vehicle on track enhancing the winter abilities and dry/wet handling if you push it . The majority of driving power is at front wheels however it directs it back as needed. Especially if slipping or sense a steep grade torque goes to rear wheels.

Which system is better? Not sure. You can push the Acura more and "it saves" you.

Currently I am running both with all-seasons (Conti ExtremeContact DWS Subaru and stock Michelin Latitudes on MDX).

 

[meep]

never so much fun was had than when I had a 2.2L 5spd legacy wagon in the snowbelt. It was more stable than my wife's pathfinder with Real 4wd. The manual AWD back then at least used a limited slip, center DIFFERENTIAL (not a clutch off a PTO) that always drove all 4 tires. The key to aggressive turning was to actually break it loose and steer with the throttle, and you had to induce oversteer to "steer past" the target to prevent leaving your desired track/path/lane.

While driving like THAT wasn't needed, or even acceptable, during day hours, I'm glad I learned how. I'd go out at 2 a.m. (dedication!) and play. A couple times, when I did get caught off-guard with a hidden ice patch or a panic maneuver in snow traffic, knowing how to work the car saved my butt-- more than once.

I was ready for something else when I sold the legacy, but man it was a great car. I'd consider a lifted forester if I couldn't have a jeep.

 

[fdcg27]

More likely that the BMW was on tires not really suited to winter use, while the Audi had more suitable tires along with AWD.
To the OP,
both of our Subies are beasts in the snow on A/S tires.
Winter tires would have to be awesome on an AWD Subie.

 

[Scum_Frog]

Originally Posted By: dparm
I'll agree that 4WD/AWD on a smaller car with snow tires makes it amazing. My Audi never ceases to amaze me with how stable it can corner in deep snow and how quickly I can accelerate away from a stop light.

Which car had 4WD? ;-)

I love this pic!

 

[jeepman3071]

Subies are awesome in New England snow storms. If I didn't have my Jeep I'd get a Subaru. The only issue with the Subaru is ground clearance... which is why I have the Jeep.

 

[MI_Roger]

Originally Posted By: Brenden
Yeah they are totally in control and speeding ahead of everyone until that false sense of security ......


Is suddenly interrupted by some Nimrod going too fast on bald tires, spinning out of control, and wiping out the well controlled car riding on good rubber. Eventhough I always install snow tires on my car each winter I still run at the same speed as the bald A/S tired pack, using my better rubber to avoid the Nimrods once they lose control.

 

[LoneRanger]

The manual transmission models still use the limited slip center differential, this is what my '09 has. Automatic transmission uses a multi-plate transfer. Both are full time awd. In 2008 though they dropped the LSD for the rear axle in favor of the new VDC or vehicle dynamics control... Subaru's version of electronic traction control and stability control. The VDC sort of tries to simulate an LSD but both wheels on the axle aren't able to spin simultaneously, the slipping wheel is braked by the ABS in order to transfer torque to the other wheel. Similar principle to other stability control systems in other brands, the advantage being that Subaru chooses to drive all four wheels all the time in a front/rear torque bias of 50/50 for the manual transmission models and 60/40 for the automatics (which if you put shifter in 1st or 2nd it locks it to 50/50 f/r torque bias). It may not be the best awd system but for the money it is among the better ones. I'm not sure how much difference the symetrical shafts aspect of their awd makes, they claim it prevents yawing sideways in low traction conditions. I know I'm itching for a decent snowfall event to try out this new set of Nokian's on mine.

Originally Posted By: meep
never so much fun was had than when I had a 2.2L 5spd legacy wagon in the snowbelt. It was more stable than my wife's pathfinder with Real 4wd. The manual AWD back then at least used a limited slip, center DIFFERENTIAL (not a clutch off a PTO) that always drove all 4 tires. The key to aggressive turning was to actually break it loose and steer with the throttle, and you had to induce oversteer to "steer past" the target to prevent leaving your desired track/path/lane.

While driving like THAT wasn't needed, or even acceptable, during day hours, I'm glad I learned how. I'd go out at 2 a.m. (dedication!) and play. A couple times, when I did get caught off-guard with a hidden ice patch or a panic maneuver in snow traffic, knowing how to work the car saved my butt-- more than once.

I was ready for something else when I sold the legacy, but man it was a great car. I'd consider a lifted forester if I couldn't have a jeep.

 

[meep]

Does the auto just pulse the rear end when slip is detected, or does it try to drive around in a partial/full lock until yaw?

The older legacies, I recall, would pulse the rear. I was corrected that when the outback came out, it drove with the rear locked until someone made steering inputs. I have never been convinced of this, as driving with a locked F-R makes a car handle a little funny, esp as it comes in and out of lock or with very minor steering corrections-- adds small driveline stress and some mpg loss. But I have never taken a meter to a clutchpack during a test drive. do you know?

M

 

[LoneRanger]

The Subarus can't lock the center diff in the manuals, its a viscous type. The automatics use a multi-plate transfer clutch arrangement that also does not fully lock. Both systems are continuous in that the front and rear is always sent torque. The viscous center diff can't vary the bias its always 50/50 f/r. The auto can vary the f/r bias, but the default is 60/40 so the rear's are receiving decent torque all the time.

As far as pulsing, the VDC system will pulse the electronic throttle to reduce engine power in certain slip conditions.

On my manual model, there is a button for turning off the VDC when desired. I had to turn it off when I took it out on the sand dunes at Silver Lake State Park in Michigan a couple summers ago. With tire pressure at 12psi on stock wheels and tires it did great on the dunes, as long as VDC was not on.

 

[charbaby]

When my wifes RX-300 AWD came with G/Y Integrity's, it was only OK in the snow but stopping was awful. Now that I have put on(not snow/ice tires) but, very good A/S tires(G/Y ACT's)...What a difference! No, it can't climb mountains but, it travels where we need to go anytime without issues.

And I can deffinately feel the difference between the AWD and FWD.