A question for any Vietnam Army or Marine vet

[greenaccord02]

The very last thing I would want to see happen here is a move toward political discussion. It would be a real shame to see this thread shut down.

Jim, I've been thinking of how to ask what I want to ask and I'm not really sure... Here's kind of what I'm thinking about:

You said that you were 20 years old when you were over there. From the stories you've told, it seems you were there for a while. In that time, how did you adjust to your situation mentally? That is to say, I'm sure your mindset was different on one of your later missions compared to your first. Did you feel more competent as you gained experience? Really, what I'm trying to understand is how you dealt with going walking out through the jungle and knowing that 88% of the time, the enemy would see you first and begin firing. Or knowing that many times you might be ambushed at a drop zone. Nobody could get used to that, but at the same time I would think a person would have to develop a way to deal with that level of stress.

Sorry for the meandering question, but I've always wondered how that kind of stress was coped with by the men who were on the ground over there. I just can't get my head around it since I've never been in any situation even remotely like that. I apologize if that question is too personal and I understand if you can't or don't wish to answer.

 

[expat]

Thank you Greenaccord, I wanted to ask much the same question.
How did you adjust to your life in NV? What were your feelings the 'first day on the job'?

 

[JimR]

Greenaccord02, that is a great question. The Vietnam tour of duty was one year, but of course, it seemed like it was longer than that. The old joke was that if you were going to get killed, it was better to get killed in the first month that you were there, than the last month. I saw it happen both ways to other soldiers.

Anyway, as each day went by you did gain more experience and you did feel that you were more competent. That said, there was still a lot of luck involved in being at the right place at the wrong time or vice versa. I always lived by the old axiom "if it was my time to die, then it would happen and you would have no control over it". You had no choice but to set your mind to the circumstances and realize that you had to deal with this. There was no alternative, you could not say I quit and go do something else. You were locked in and had to develop the mental toughness to go on. If not, you would have ended up in the Psyche Ward back in the states. It boiled down to the fact that you had to do whatever it took to survive for one year.

It became even more difficult to cope the closer you came to the end of the one year tour. You said to yourself, I only have one month to go so let's be more careful and keep hoping for the best. In reality, you had very little control over that. You had to believe in fate or pre-destination. If it was in the cards for you to survive, you would. If not, your name would end up on the wall with 58,000 other men and women.

Hemi426, I am trying as Greenaccord02 suggested to keep this conversation non-political so as not to have it shutdown. I don't think we should talk about Gerald Ford and Richard Nixon. That said, the NVA were in fact far superior soldiers to the ARVN as I alluded to earlier.

 

[mikeg5]

Originally Posted By: onion
[Pot stirring by Onion deleted]


wow ignorance at its best.. it was a quasi war against russia really. part of the cold war.. most of those guys didnt volunteer to go to Vietnam, most were drafted if i am not mistaken.. so if you were drafted to fight a war you didnt agree with would you burn your draft card or do you go fight like our fathers did in wars previous? my guess is that, well ill stop right there.. i do agree that particular war was "rediculous" but at the time no one knew of the consequences of that magnitude.. [political comment deleted].

Mike, your comment was only borderline political, I removed it because the topic was going in the dumper. Please carry on.

 

[Nickdfresh]

...

 

[XS650]

Nicked, thank you for removing that.

Onion, if you aren't willing to let people discuss this topic without injecting politics into it, stay out of the topic.

All, Unfortunately some good posts got quarantined along with the political one. Sorry about that. The way the system works is that posts in response to the offending post automatically get quarantined along with the offending post. The moderators generally aren't going to spend much if any time digging the good posts back out of quarantine.

 

[onion]

This discussion was already political. And one-sided at that. I see that dissenting opinions are not welcome.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: onion
This discussion was already political. And one-sided at that.

No, it really wasn't.

 

[mikeg5]

Originally Posted By: onion
This discussion was already political. And one-sided at that. I see that dissenting opinions are not welcome.


how was it political.. btw usually i am the first to point out hypocracy and one sided brains but i dont see that in this, a guy asking vets how they coped with vietnam.. try again bubba

 

[JimR]

Mikeg5, there were six new replies since I logged off this morning and none have moved this conversation in the positive direction we were going.

I thank the moderator for assisting and I have been trying my best to keep this from being shutdown due to politics.

If anyone wants to continue what we were discussing, please post and we will go on from there.

 

[Boatowner]

First of all, I had basic in 1974, which technically makes me a Vietnam Era Veteran. I am proud to stand up with the guys who really did risk all over there. I am also old enough that I could have joined out of high school (1971), and considered doing so. BTW, my MOS was artillery.

I loved the M-16. I qualified expert even though the rifle I came to at 50 meter night fire was jammed when I got to it. I cleared the jam and still got 8 out of 10 targets. I would have gotten all of them without the jam. I kept thinking I couldn't believe how easy it was, but then that wasn't combat.

About the Army and music during an assault, did you ever see the movie Little Big Man? Custer really did have the regimental band in the snow playing Gary Owen as he attacked the Cheyenne at Washita in 1868. I have a strong dislike for that piece ever since learning that.

I have found combat veterans don't like to talk about it at all. A friend whose best friend died in his arms at Iwo Jima talked about it finally just a few years ago. Even then it was hard for him. My wife's uncle was a pilot on a B-17G. I asked him about Dresden and he refused to discuss it. You have to just respect that. War means doing horrible things to other human beings, no getting around that.

I have always maintained there is honor is service and that applied to every American soldier who did his duty, but also to the enemy who fought with honor, no matter what uniform he wore.

As a Cold War veteran and survivor of the Cuban Missile Crisis, I always knew the Russians were the enemy we were fighting. Now two of my children, Nadia and Anastasia are from Russia. Things change over time, a lot.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Hemi426
First of all, Thank you for your courage and service. I'm a big Vietnam War buff and I know you guys never got the welcome home which you so richly deserved. I have a question. What were the weather/temps like in South Vietnam in the summertime?I've been led to believe that it was very hot and humid. How did you avoid heat sickness and sun/heat stroke with all that gear and dark green clothing on? Thank you in advance.


Hot and very humid from May until October, good chance of thunder-storms every day. High in the mid 90's to the low 120's, low in the high 70's to high 80's. It's not so much of the high temperature but the high humidity, up to 80-90% or higher, is really the killer. Compares with Hawaii, South Vietnam is about 10-30% higher in summer and it's so humid such that you feel like staying in a steamer.

 

[expat]

Please tell us of you first impressions, and instruction when you first arrived in Vietnam. Where you prepared for your experiance?

 

[JimR]

expat, I first arrived in Vietnam in a place called Cam Ranh Bay, where most new arrivals are processed. Cam Ranh was one of the safest places in Vietnam. It looked like a regular Army base with barracks, offices, warehouses, recreational areas and lots of Vietnamese people who worked on the base for us. It was my first glimpse of Vietnamese civilians up close and personal. One of the first things that happened that goes against what Americans are used to was a trip to the bathroom. The base had the equivalent of outhouses with about 6 seats in each one with no partitions. There are no locks on them and I soon learned that they were open to everybody. I had just sat down to do a number two when I was suddenly joined inside the outhouse by a Vietnamese woman and her two little girls. I was somewhat uncomfortable, but they didn't seem to mind in the least. I chalked it up as our cultural differences.

Subsequently, I was assigned to the Americal Division and would be flown to a place called Chu Lai to join my new infantry unit. My days in a safe place were over. When I arrived in Chu Lai, I had to undergo about a week of "jungle warfare" training from instructors with a lot of experience in that area of operation. I probably learned more in that one week than I did in the 9 weeks of infantry training in the States. When that was over, I was assigned to my unit on Landing Zone (LZ) Gator where my infantry tour began.

The men welcomed me, but called me an expletive new guy and mentioned that they had a lot less time left on their tours than I did. I was issued all the necessary equipment and nervously prepared for my first mission in the jungle. I was scared beyond belief when we boarded the helicopters and landed in the middle of nowhere for that first search and destroy mission. Luckily, it was uneventful and I didn't have to fight the very first mission.

I was scared on every mission, but when we were engaged by the enemy, you had to set that aside and try to do your job. None of the training you receive can really prepare you for the first time that you have hostile fire directed at you. It doesn't get any better the more times that it happens.

With the casualties our unit sustained during that year, I consider myself lucky to be here today talking to you. I hope this answers your question.

 

[expat]

Thank you

 

[Hemi426]

Good story, Jim. I hope this night is treating you well. I've been feeling [censored] all day(sinuses)that's why I have waited until now to post. Good news, I've been doing some research online and they do give Huey rides at some of the larger air shows around the country. Dayton, OH is about the closest one I can find so I may get my experience yet!

 

[greenaccord02]

Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to answer so completely.

 

[greenaccord02]

I spoke about some of this with my wife, who earned her degree in Psychology. She said that the people with the highest rates of PTSD are rape victims and soldiers, because they so rarely talk about their experiences. Research has shown that the more a person talks about their experience, the less likely they are to exhibit symptoms of PTSD. Perhaps the internet is a good way to begin this process, with at least a modicum of anonymity.

 

[JT1]

Jim, I could sit here and read your stories all day if presented the opportunity. My math/wood shop teacher(hey, I went to a small school) was a 'nam vet, he was a chopper pilot although he originally signed on to be a fighter pilot. I really enjoyed his classes as because we usually ended up spending 90% of class listening to his stories, and he had some rather interesting ones just as any war vet does.

Anyway, I really appreciate you telling these stories because if it weren't for soldiers like you telling what really happened over there all us young folks would be forced to believe some churched up text-book version.

 

[crinkles]

I once sat down at an outback pub. a guy of the age to have been in Vietnam sat down next to me. some folks from the contractor I was overseeing were there too.

This guy sat next to me, all he said to me was "I killed people in Vietnam" and drank his (terrible) west Australian beer.

that was pretty full on, but what was worse was the contractor's guys were making fun of him behind his back. I just sat there and drank my drink next to him. Didn't know what to say.

So I guess my question is, to American vets, did you ever work with Aussie soldiers and what is your opinion of them.