A question about Costco gas additives

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although more additives help in other places a DI only engine sprays NO fuel on the valves!!! we need more cars using both types of injection like VW uses ONLY in Europe!!!
 
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although more additives help in other places a DI only engine sprays NO fuel on the valves!!! we need more cars using both types of injection like VW uses ONLY in Europe!!!
I find it funny how the internet is rampant with the hatred for DI, but yet I personally don’t know a single person in real life who has had any issues with DI carbon buildup.
 
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The dude probably owns stock in those 3 oil companies.

Blinker -

Really?

Do you honestly believe that service advisor had enough common sense and investment acumen to invest in those three solid dividend paying companies?

Norfolk and Waypal! (Say that REALLY fast).
 

Shel_B

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Costco doses their gas at the pumps. Other brands typically dose at the terminal. Some data sheets have been posted around the internet which indicated changes in dosage as the only difference between regular and premium.
In case you missed it, the dose for Costco's regular and premium is the same.
 
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Meanwhile I have seen more expensive and higher performance vehicles at Costco than Volvos could ever hope to be....getting fuel....nationwide.
The Service Advisor is full of garbage.


Not sure about higher performance, but I mentioned seeing a 1957 300SL roadster at a gas station. That was at my closest Costco gas station. Why the owner couldn't start it was another matter, but I don't think it was the gas.

Also - just to not add another post, I figured that additive metered at the station is on top of the EPA minimums that have to be added at the fuel terminal to be in compliance with federal regulations on the delivery of fuel to the retailer.
 
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Costco doses their gas at the pumps. Other brands typically dose at the terminal. Some data sheets have been posted around the internet which indicated changes in dosage as the only difference between regular and premium.
I think they dose it at delivery. They have a computerized system that they put how many gal are being dumped and it automatically "doses" that load. An attendant told me if it breaks down they have to hand pump it. It's very thick and they hate doing it. Repair people come out pretty quickly but those pumps are always going. They have a proprietary add pack made just for them by Lubrizol. You can't beat their gas for freshness, additives and price.
 
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I think they dose it at delivery. They have a computerized system that they put how many gal are being dumped and it automatically "doses" that load. An attendant told me if it breaks down they have to hand pump it. It's very thick and they hate doing it. Repair people come out pretty quickly but those pumps are always going. They have a proprietary add pack made just for them by Lubrizol. You can't beat their gas for freshness, additives and price.

I've seen the system and the additives have their own fill point with a lavender cover. Some have an above ground additive tank, but the photos I've seen from Costco's presentations shows a below ground tank that's buried and that looks like a mini version of their fuel tanks.

But in the United States, the fuel in tanker at the fuel terminal can't legally leave for a retail delivery without at least the EPA mandated minimum (aka "lowest additive concentration"). So whatever they add is on top of that.

I did have worries about fueling while they have a delivery going on given that I wasn't sure how well metered the additive was and if it was properly mixed. There won't be that worry at the fuel terminal because there's plenty of time for it to mix on the way.
 
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Close, but no cigar. I don't see any reference to the chemical composition of the Cosco additive. I know that if I run Costco gas for a while, then add a jug of a cleaner consisting of PEA, the PEA improves performance. Example: VP Fuels Madditive Cleaner.
And you'll never get it from Costco because it's not their formula. Lubrizol 9888 aka UltraZol 9888
 
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I think they dose it at delivery. They have a computerized system that they put how many gal are being dumped and it automatically "doses" that load. An attendant told me if it breaks down they have to hand pump it. It's very thick and they hate doing it. Repair people come out pretty quickly but those pumps are always going. They have a proprietary add pack made just for them by Lubrizol. You can't beat their gas for freshness, additives and price.
They have a separate additive tank buried on site at every location. UltraZol 9888 apparently is the additive.
 

Shel_B

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They have a separate additive tank buried on site at every location. UltraZol 9888 apparently is the additive.
I'm always amazed at the obscure (to me, at least) bits of information that folks here are knowledgeable about. Thanks for posting that.
 
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I found that too. But it clearly says 1-4.9% Polyether amine. I suspect that it contains more than that, but why some things end up on an SDS can be a mystery. Legally the only requirement is for potentially hazardous ingredients, and PEA isn't considered hazardous as such.

ULTRAZOL_9888C.PDF




Here's another one, where Countrymark posts the SDS for one of the additives that they use.


ULTRAZOL%208219CM%20[SDS].pdf


The possible ingredients are on the second page, but here's what stands out (all with confidential CAS suggesting it's a trade secret):

Hydrocarbyl amine 40 - 50%
Butylated phenol 1 - 5%
Polyether amine 1 - 5%
Alkaryl amine 1 - 5%
Alkarylamine 1 - 5%

But hydroxylcarbyl amines have been used for decades as fuel detergents. This patent from Chevron is from 1976. Not sure what the deal is, since Chevron's primary research into fuel and lubricant additives is now done at a facility near their refinery in Richmond, California. And their HQ has moved to San Ramon.


US3960515.pdf
 
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My experience with Costco gas is as follows. I have an 18 Legacy and a 19 Impreza. Both cars have had Costco gas. The Legacy from what I can tell runs just fine. The Impreza, I took to the dealer for its first or second oil change and mentioned that I'm not getting the mileage that I should be and that the car seems jerky. They asked what brand of gas I used and I said Costco and they told me not to use Costco and they have a lot of cars in the shop having issues with Costco gas. This was about 1 1/2 to 2 years ago. So, I switched to BP then Shell and it got better. Not 100% better but better. Now at the present, I took my car in for a fuel pump recall and I mentioned again that the car is jerky and asked them to run some TSB for the CVT trans. The last I heard was one of the logs was weird but they didn't notice anything while driving it. Then I got a txt asking what brand of gas I use. I haven't heard back.

My friend has a 16? WRX and has a COBB access port (I know nothing about this stuff). He told me that he was using Costco gas and it was pulling timing and he switched to Shell and his results were much better.

I am NOT a car expert nor fuel expert. So, I wonder if there is some truth to this issue with Costco gas but for the life of me I don't get why. If it meets the octane requirements AND has the additives to meet the top tier requirements, then why is there an issue?

For the record, I am NOT knocking Costco gas. I use it in my wife's CR-V and my Legacy but neither are DI, only the Impreza is. I have used it in my 2001 S4 too and didn't notice any issues other than what is already wrong with the car.
 
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Blinker -

Really?

Do you honestly believe that service advisor had enough common sense and investment acumen to invest in those three solid dividend paying companies?

Norfolk and Waypal! (Say that REALLY fast).
Are you saying service advisors can’t invest in oil company stocks and reap some dividends?

Absolutely, I do believe this service advisor could have stock in those oil companies. It’s hard to trust a lot of people concerning product recommendations due to financial incentive.

With that being said, XOM, Chevron, and Shell all produce quality fuels.
 
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although more additives help in other places a DI only engine sprays NO fuel on the valves!!! we need more cars using both types of injection like VW uses ONLY in Europe!!!
You mean like what Lexus and Toyota offers?

Considering that it's been offered on certain lexus engines since 2006?
 
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My experience with Costco gas is as follows. I have an 18 Legacy and a 19 Impreza. Both cars have had Costco gas. The Legacy from what I can tell runs just fine. The Impreza, I took to the dealer for its first or second oil change and mentioned that I'm not getting the mileage that I should be and that the car seems jerky. They asked what brand of gas I used and I said Costco and they told me not to use Costco and they have a lot of cars in the shop having issues with Costco gas. This was about 1 1/2 to 2 years ago. So, I switched to BP then Shell and it got better. Not 100% better but better. Now at the present, I took my car in for a fuel pump recall and I mentioned again that the car is jerky and asked them to run some TSB for the CVT trans. The last I heard was one of the logs was weird but they didn't notice anything while driving it. Then I got a txt asking what brand of gas I use. I haven't heard back.

My friend has a 16? WRX and has a COBB access port (I know nothing about this stuff). He told me that he was using Costco gas and it was pulling timing and he switched to Shell and his results were much better.

I am NOT a car expert nor fuel expert. So, I wonder if there is some truth to this issue with Costco gas but for the life of me I don't get why. If it meets the octane requirements AND has the additives to meet the top tier requirements, then why is there an issue?

For the record, I am NOT knocking Costco gas. I use it in my wife's CR-V and my Legacy but neither are DI, only the Impreza is. I have used it in my 2001 S4 too and didn't notice any issues other than what is already wrong with the car.

Costco doesn't make gasoline. They buy it on the spot market and it's supposed to be commodity grade the same as what most others get. Shell doesn't even have a single refinery left in California, so I'm sure that none of the fuel we see at our local Shell stations is made by Shell because they don't make California RFG any more. They likely do horse trading with other companies to deliver fuel somewhere else where they have refineries, or even buy it on the spot market to supply their franchises.

However, who knows where Costco gets it. It's different in every location. It probably changes too because Costco is so price sensitive. And in the end they just get it delivered at some fuel terminal just like most other gas stations with base fuel coming from the same tanks.

I can't account for what someone does with a tuned engine, but certainly it's possible that the octane rating of certain fuels is higher since the pump sticker only specifies minimum octane rating. I would never rely on it. Every refiner has periods where they have to shut down for maintenance or due to accident, and then they have to buy fuel on the spot market.

I'm not quite sure what incentive any company would have to vastly exceed the requirements given the way that fuel is distributed - mostly by pipeline operators as a commodity. Everyone make commodity fuels for the most part. While I doubt they really want to cheat, there's no incentive to far exceed the requirements (which costs money) when most of your output is just going to someone else and likely mixed with the same commodity grade from other refiners.
 
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