A place on BITOG for CNG-powered vehicles?

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Sorry if I've overlooked. Wife just bought a new 2012 Honda Civic that runs exclusively on compressed natural gas. I'm familiar with this gasoline-powered forum, and I see there's a diesel-powered forum, but anything for CNG?

Thank you.
 
How far from home do you feel comfortable driving?

What do you plan to do when it's time to sell?

Just curious.
 
Originally Posted By: Burt
How far from home do you feel comfortable driving?

What do you plan to do when it's time to sell?

Just curious.


1. "Range anxiety" is actually a real concern among owners of vehicles like this, along with owners of all-electric cars. We'll go pretty much as far as we want, based upon the location of fueling stations which are a keystroke away on her smartphone app. The car easily goes 250 miles on a full tank in Chicago-area driving, much more on a highway trip (42 mpg not exactly adhering to the posted limit). In her first few days of ownership she drove from Chicago to the Detroit suburbs to visit family, filling up in Ann Arbor, MI going there and coming back. No biggie. The reality of my wife's car is that she uses it 99% of the time as a back-and-forth-to-work vehicle and as a grocery-getter (using that term generically, not trying to be sexist), so she's not going to have any problem with distance or fueling concerns. There's a public filling station 2 miles from her office and another 1.5 miles from our home near Chicago Midway Airport. Just filled up at the latter location tonight for $2.49 per gallon. If we have some big road trip to take, we'd use my car anyway as it is simply more spacious and that's what we've done for many years.

2. Her last two cars have gone over 160K and we expect the same with this one. The age and the mileage of the cars, combined with the fact that she chooses pretty basic vehicles to begin with, doesn't leave much value remaining by the time we're done, so we usually just pass them on to a worthy younger person in the family in need of a college-type car. Dunno if there will be another college-age kid in 12 years, dunno if that kid would want to have anything to do with some "weird" CNG car, but we'll see!

Definitely taking a bit of a risk with the vehicle, but she and I are perfectly fine with making small adjustments necessary to own the car. CNG may very well be a slow-building wave of the future, maybe not, but I don't see anything too concerning other than "Honey, do NOT get too low on gas anymore!"
 
Hi Klooks,

I purchased a Civic CNG about 4 months ago. I really like the car so far. Great mileage, easy to drive and park in the city.

I just changed the oil for the first time yesterday at 6k miles. It was still clear on the dipstick, I could barely see it. When I drained it there was no smell to it at all. I will go 10k on the next oil change with Mobil 1.

Regarding the station anxiety, I know what you mean. I fill up quite a bit (almost every other day) just to avoid being stranded. A small price to pay in my opinion for the benefits I am gaining. I go by the Clean Energy station and Jefferson and Roosevelt every day anyways.

Be careful about counting on all stations to be operating. What I mean is, just because its on your Iphone app it doesn't mean the station is actually operational. The CNG pumps seem to require a lot of maintenance for some reason and are frequently out of order. Many times pressure is just way low.

For the environment , I think these cars are great. This wasn't really why I bought it but a nice side benefit.
 
Expect the engine to last a seriously long time given that CNG is a fantastic fuel. Also expect it to start effortlessly if winter gets cold.

I'm a big fan of CNG; its just too bad nobody else is.
 
Originally Posted By: rk1407
Hi Klooks,

I purchased a Civic CNG about 4 months ago. I really like the car so far. Great mileage, easy to drive and park in the city.

I just changed the oil for the first time yesterday at 6k miles. It was still clear on the dipstick, I could barely see it. When I drained it there was no smell to it at all. I will go 10k on the next oil change with Mobil 1.

Regarding the station anxiety, I know what you mean. I fill up quite a bit (almost every other day) just to avoid being stranded. A small price to pay in my opinion for the benefits I am gaining. I go by the Clean Energy station and Jefferson and Roosevelt every day anyways.

Be careful about counting on all stations to be operating. What I mean is, just because its on your Iphone app it doesn't mean the station is actually operational. The CNG pumps seem to require a lot of maintenance for some reason and are frequently out of order. Many times pressure is just way low.

For the environment , I think these cars are great. This wasn't really why I bought it but a nice side benefit.



rk,

Awesome, thanks for that testimony. And yes, I did advise my wife to call first before setting out to Detroit.

Now, perhaps I shouldn't ask seeing as we are on BITOG after all, but why did you drop your factory fill at only 6K?!? lol Aren't you supposed to follow Honda's advice that it is a special break-in oil and that you should let it go the full duration as specified on the oil life monitor?

That ribbing aside, we will be checking out the Clean Energy station you mentioned (which my wife already knows about) because she got a very substantial fuel card for CE locations when she purchased the car.
 
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Expect the engine to last a seriously long time given that CNG is a fantastic fuel. Also expect it to start effortlessly if winter gets cold.

I'm a big fan of CNG; its just too bad nobody else is.


Rice,

Good to know about the cold start capability. That, along with the Honda-specified 0-20 oil, will make things nice and smooth in the Chicago winters I'm sure!
 
Yes, I was wondering how long it would take before I started get flak for that choice! I'm sure its coming...

It was a motivating factor for me too. $3k fuel card is pretty nice. At the rate I am going, I shouldn't have to pay for fuel for the next two years!

I was at the CE station on Friday morning and a lot of taxis and Pace transit/carpool vans fill up there. I had to show two Pace drivers how to attach the nozzle and fill it! They don't even show these people how to fuel their vehicles. The attendant came out and he couldn't do it either! It was quite the comedy. I waited to go over, didn't want to show the guy up but after they pressurized and un-pressurized the nozzle about a dozen times the amount of NatGas in the air was reaching a dangerous level.. lol
 
Rice,

You are ahead of the curve. I just read an article that said there are 1,000 NatGas stations in the US right now, and by 2017 there will be an estimated 27,000. This is happening folks! Not sure about Canada.

So why does NatGas work better in the cold weather?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: rk1407
Yes, I was wondering how long it would take before I started get flak for that choice! I'm sure its coming...

It was a motivating factor for me too. $3k fuel card is pretty nice. At the rate I am going, I shouldn't have to pay for fuel for the next two years!

I was at the CE station on Friday morning and a lot of taxis and Pace transit/carpool vans fill up there. I had to show two Pace drivers how to attach the nozzle and fill it! They don't even show these people how to fuel their vehicles. The attendant came out and he couldn't do it either! It was quite the comedy. I waited to go over, didn't want to show the guy up but after they pressurized and un-pressurized the nozzle about a dozen times the amount of NatGas in the air was reaching a dangerous level.. lol


Ha. Not surprised they didn't train those people.

Had my wife take me to the local fueling station today to show me the ropes. Super-easy, fast and very interesting. That little "burp" or puff of gas after pulling off the nozzle is a little startling. It won't be a surprise a second time, though.
 
Originally Posted By: rk1407
So why does NatGas work better in the cold weather?


Gasoline won't burn unless its a vapour, so when it gets cold out it tends to want to stay a liquid, which is tricky to atomize and mix and ignite in the engine.

CNG on the other hand is already a gas and ready to light. You also won't get condensation issues in fuel like you can with gasoline, since its a sealed system.
 
CNG fuel is certainly at an attractive price.....our bus operator pays about $1.90 per gallon equivalent and averages around 3.1 mpg compared to the diesel fleet that pays $3.50 per gallon and averages 3.8 mpg.

I'm not sure I agree with the longevity arguement though, at least with HD vehicles....the CNG buses get about 250k before overhaul whereas the diesels are still going strong at 450k.

CNG is a good fuel and more stations are cropping up everyday....most are run by CE.
 
I like the idea of CNG for many reasons, but we had a company pool car that was CNG in the 90's except it ran on gasoline or CNG. The problem is if natural gas prices go up, then they stop selling cng cars and the filling stations go away. Plus you have the risk that the stations raise the price somewhat because they are losing money on the low volume of sales. While they may get subsidizies to cover the cost of installation, they still have heavy maintenance cost on the 3000 psi pump and the electricity that it takes to get to the level of pressure.

Utility Minnegasco had a fleet of CNG trucks 20 years ago and one of them had a rupture and the worker was injured and that was the end of that.

Sorry to be sourpuss. Despite the negatives, I think CNG should be mandated for commercial fleets that return to base.
 
You could also consider buying a home refueling station. They slowly fill your CNG tank in about 8 hours. Think of not having to go to a filling station and fill your tank in the cold, wind, rain, and snow.
 
Originally Posted By: Burt
I like the idea of CNG for many reasons, but we had a company pool car that was CNG in the 90's except it ran on gasoline or CNG. The problem is if natural gas prices go up, then they stop selling cng cars and the filling stations go away. Plus you have the risk that the stations raise the price somewhat because they are losing money on the low volume of sales. While they may get subsidizies to cover the cost of installation, they still have heavy maintenance cost on the 3000 psi pump and the electricity that it takes to get to the level of pressure.

Utility Minnegasco had a fleet of CNG trucks 20 years ago and one of them had a rupture and the worker was injured and that was the end of that.

Sorry to be sourpuss. Despite the negatives, I think CNG should be mandated for commercial fleets that return to base.


Burt, I don't see you being a sourpuss at all, just reasonable conversation.

While it is true no one knows where nat. gas prices (or any other fuel for that matter) may go, they have been stable and low (at least for vehicle use) for quite some time. I'm not sure stations will necessarily close even if prices spike because the two we now regularly use (along with the one my wife used on her road trip, plus the one mentioned by another poster in this thread) are stations that cater to fleets and commercial vehicles, not some lonely outposts waiting for a rare CNG-powered private car like ours to drive up. I don't think such stations are going anywhere.

I can't really address what happened in MN 20 years ago, but CNG does seem on the rise. Every single cab we hailed in the San Francisco Bay Area last year while on vacation was CNG (Honda Civics and Ford Transits) and my good friend who drives for Waste Management at the Hooker Street yard in Chicago is watching CNG trucks become more prevalent (his location remains 100% diesel at the moment because of infrastructure, but his colleagues from other yards are now driving CNG). In fact, the filling station we use near Chicago Midway Airport is part of a big Waste Management service facility that also happens to allow public use with a credit card.

Like I said earlier, there might be something to this trend, there might not, but that's OK. We're fine with the small adjustments necessary for ownership and we're interested in the alternative technology. We've owned a diesel car and a fairly early hybrid car with no issues so we figured we'd try this one.
 
Originally Posted By: InhalingBullets
We have (212), 2000 Honda Civic GXA's (CNG) in our Fleet...the dang things will not die!


Wow, great to hear. We quizzed the drivers of CNG taxis last year in the San Francisco on our vacation and they loved them (one was actually an owner/operator, not just a driver). Hoping for the best with ours. Thank you.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
You could also consider buying a home refueling station. They slowly fill your CNG tank in about 8 hours. Think of not having to go to a filling station and fill your tank in the cold, wind, rain, and snow.


Absolutely! There's a home refueling device on the wall at the Honda dealership and the CNG forum has people who've gone that route. I would definitely consider it but for two reasons: we are looking to move in the near future once the housing market eases up a little bit more, plus our home has a detached garage which would require an expensive routing of a gas pipe from the house. I'm sure there are also permitting issues.
 
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