A/F ratio and timing question

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What would happen to the A/F ratio if I jacked up the timing generally speaking? Ignore load, RPM, temperature compensation for now...

What would happen to the A/F ratio and combustion of fuel/air mixture and its effect on emissions output?
 
You are not specific enough RE: jack up timing? Do you mean by advancing/retarding your ignition timing?

There are far too many factors related to A/F ratio....
 
I meant advancing the timing by a few degrees over the stock settings (EFI).

So what would be its impact on emissions?
 
So what are the pros/cons of raising the ignition timing, generally speaking that is? I understand excessive advance can cause detonation, but a common trick that many SB Ford owners seem to like is to raise the timing for slightly more horsepower/engine output.
 
what year/make of vehicle are you talking about? a 68 mustang may benefit from "jacking up the timing". an 03 accord will not benefit at all from "jacking up the timing".
 
Under a static load /RPM condition, raising the ignition timing while keeping all other factors equal (air charge temp, Fuel-air mixture ratio, Lambda reading steady, engine already engaged in closed-loop operation, etc.) may or may not increase the power output of your engine (this is because the ignition timing set in the factory already factored-in the flame propagation pattern/timing inside combustion chamber to obtain the most output while keeping the emission level within specs.

This is applicable to N/A engine with computerized EFI engine systems.

"tricking" A/F ratio with a little bit of ignition timing advancement (while keeping all other factors equal) generally resulted in a few % horsepower increase but since this is also partially controlled/compansated by computer engine management system, your gain would be small (because when engine sense a detonation signal due to excessive ignition timing advancement, it wll retard the ignition timing abit and/or throw the engine into "limp" mode so as to reduce any damage caused by detonation.

So, the bottomline is, in an EFI controlled closed-loop N/A gasoline engine system, stock ignition timing gives you the best overall performance while all things considered.

IMHO any silly tricks in altering the settings (ignition timing, A/F ratio, etc.), unless tested on a dyno, proves nothing.

Turbo/supercharged gasoline engines require additional analysis before any observable benefits can be achieved, esp. by merely advancing the ignition timing.
 
I have a 2000 Ford Crown Vic and have the necessary hardware/software to tune the PCM.

I can change the timing in specific areas of the engine operating range, and I'm interested in adding a few degrees of timing because I'm using 93 octane fuel (stock programming is for 86/87 octane).

There are some peculiarities that I cannot explain and just wanted to know why someone would pull a significant amount (20* or more, retarded timing) of timing or add a few degrees (advanced).
 
Changing the ignition timing (in degree terms) on any typical EFI system calls for at least some reprogramming of your PCM module so that it would not take your "altered" settings as irregular behaviour and attempt to compensate it.

Sorry, I'm not into Ford so I cannot tell you how to do this.

My experiences came from Bosch K-Jet/Motronic and also Digifan/Digifan-II.

Also: for some foreign car management systems, their engines maybe designed to such great precision and control where a slight detonation-like behaviour is going to cause signification engine damage. Most of the PCM systems on these cars are designed with "fail safe" mode and also a very wide range of ignition timing, A/F, etc. compensation so as to keep the damage under control.
 
Like I said before, I can do the changes to the PCM w/o any problems. I'm not asking anyone for help on how to do that. The hardware and software is sitting in front of me and I've had 1+ year experience using it.

I didn't want to get into specifics because people are going to chime in about various systems and what not. I'm just asking about the basic principles.

Nonetheless, thanks for the input everyone.
 
If you have some kind of tuner or something that allows you to change the timing at various points along the rpm curve, go spend an hour on a chassis dyno; you'll for sure pick up a few ponies. You may not pick up that much more peak hp, but you'll probably get more midrange "area under the curve".
 
Metro, a FI engine is constantly trying to get a stochiometric A/F mixture (14.7 to 1), and I don't think timing affects it. The MAF and O2 sensors mainly determine the mixture by changing the injector pulse-width.

If you can keep the injectors open longer (richer mixture), then advancing the timing will give more power, but emissions would also suffer. Advancing timing by itself, without other changes, might cause detonation.
 
I don't think it will make a difference. If the timing advance improves VE wouldn't the MAS proportionally increase the fuel flow?
 
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