A Critic-Style Brake Job

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Originally Posted By: Phishin
Would it be smart to rub grease, oil, fluid film, or paint, etc. etc. on the hub after cleaning? You know, to prevent corrosion in the future?


If its only very minor surface rust then it does help a little but once the iron gets pitted nothing really helps for very long, one winter in the salt belt and its back.
There is nothing worse than naked iron for rusting.
 
Critic, I'd like to see your jig for measuring runout. I posted mine before, now I can't find it, maybe it was another forum. Getting them clamped down firmly enough to measure accurately can be a chore. The magnetic base is only a help, I've had to C-Clamp my base down.

Unless there's something magical about Accords, I don't see a problem with .002" of runout. I've found the
After monitoring runout and brake performance on my various vehicles, I now feel pad imprinting/poor break-in is the primary cause of brake pedal pulsation, with runout being the problem only when excessive. The proliferation of bad break-in advice on the Internet only makes things worse.
 
Originally Posted By: HangFire
After monitoring runout and brake performance on my various vehicles, I now feel pad imprinting/poor break-in is the primary cause of brake pedal pulsation, with runout being the problem only when excessive. The proliferation of bad break-in advice on the Internet only makes things worse.


What is your recommended break-in procedure? I ask with genuine interest because there is, indeed, such a wide variety of "best advice" out there.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: HangFire
After monitoring runout and brake performance on my various vehicles, I now feel pad imprinting/poor break-in is the primary cause of brake pedal pulsation, with runout being the problem only when excessive. The proliferation of bad break-in advice on the Internet only makes things worse.


What is your recommended break-in procedure? I ask with genuine interest because there is, indeed, such a wide variety of "best advice" out there.


I made a fairly animated post about it here:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3679080/2#3678496
 
Originally Posted By: Rick in PA
Thanks for posting. It reminds me to be more careful in cleaning my hubs on future brake jobs.


Its more critical as you go from the center of the hub to the outside.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
I do not see a dial gauge connected to measure lateral runout?


There are links to the video in the original post - they didn't get hyperlinked, but you can copy/paste the link into your browser.

I'll respond to the other questions later today.
 
Nice to see you cleaned up the hub to rotor interface. I always burnish a small amount of anti seize into the interface so that rust doesn't develope.Nice right up
 
Originally Posted By: MDettling
I should throw a stick of Old Spice deodorant in the toolbox.. Pure Sport, "the scent of victory"

The Critic is always prepared. That was in case this brake job got a little complex and started to make him sweat.
wink.gif
 
This is great tool/reference for people who dont know how to do brakes the proper way.

I had to LOL @ your "rust" on those hubs. But i guess that is as bad as it gets in Cali, try coming to the midwest. You will learn about rust here.

But brakes are easy and stupid quick. If you were put on the clock, you can easily do job in say under 30 minutes, minus the bleeding and braking in the pads.
 
It must be actually fun working on old cars in CA. Up here I'd be torching and hammering those rotors and caliper bolts off.

Half the time the brake lines are frozen in place so you have lots of fun when you want to change calipers.
 
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Originally Posted By: silverrat
This is what bitog is all about


01.gif


This is a great thread.
 
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Very thorough brake job!
smile.gif

Most shops/tech's wouldn't go this far as there are 100 cars waiting in the parking lot for their turn to be serviced. They'd just slap on new parts(loaded kit) and move on to the next customers car. And of course, charge the poor customer $800-$1000

Thanks! I do think that if a tech used an on-car-lathe, the practice should greatly reduce the comeback rate since cutting rotors on the same plane will greatly reduce the lateral runout.

Originally Posted By: Turk
You da man!!
smile.gif


I just bought front Centric Rotors for the '98 Saturn from Amazon, but there was
no mention of lateral runout. I'd like 0.002" or better. Do you know what Centric specs, in general??

Thanks!


Thanks! Centric claims 0.002” or less on the rotor itself (on their 120 and 125 series) but as I mentioned earlier, what matters is the runout of the final assembly. If your rotor has no runout, but the hub does, the “stacking” may lead you to have a result that is out-of-spec.

Originally Posted By: Mud
Just curious (I hope I didn't miss this in the write-up)did you bleed brake fluid out at all to replenish with fresh fluid? The stuff that sits inside the caliper pistons gets particularly nasty since it's on the front lines so to speak.


The brake fluid was flushed at the last service, which was about 6 months and 4,000 miles ago. But I did notice that the brake fluid has turned green? I've seen this happen before on systems that have not been flushed regularly.

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I concur with others that you did a great job and that not too many mechanics would go into the same level of detail in their work, which is quite sad considering the price they charge for the labor.
The only thing I did not catch is if you used any antiseize on the hub. If not, then the rust will inevitably return and mess up the runout again.

Having said that, I believe that a simple hub cleaning would bring the runout on the old rotors and pads back to spec, saving the owner money on the new parts.


Thanks. Rust will return regardless, but this will allow it to go away longer.

A hub cleaning may bring the runout back into spec, but any thickness variation that has already developed will not be resolved. Thickness variation is what ultimately causes the pulsation that a driver feels.

Originally Posted By: Phishin
Would it be smart to rub grease, oil, fluid film, or paint, etc. etc. on the hub after cleaning? You know, to prevent corrosion in the future?



I was always told to not use any lubricants/greases on the hub flange since it could attract dirt/debris.

Originally Posted By: HangFire
Critic, I'd like to see your jig for measuring runout. I posted mine before, now I can't find it, maybe it was another forum. Getting them clamped down firmly enough to measure accurately can be a chore. The magnetic base is only a help, I've had to C-Clamp my base down.

Unless there's something magical about Accords, I don't see a problem with .002" of runout. I've found the
After monitoring runout and brake performance on my various vehicles, I now feel pad imprinting/poor break-in is the primary cause of brake pedal pulsation, with runout being the problem only when excessive. The proliferation of bad break-in advice on the Internet only makes things worse.


Sure thing – I use a HF dial indicator. Here are the videos that did not link properly in the original post:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GlxbfHH1EQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5uCa1ZETmU

Getting a good mounting spot is always a challenge. Each car is different. On Hondas with double-wishbone suspensions, the damper fork bolt tends to be a good spot. On other cars, one of the strut-to-knuckle bolts can be a good spot as well.

I think your concern is valid – up until recently, cars allowed as much as 0.004”. But we're starting to see cars allow no more than 0.0014” (Infiniti G37). The principle is that the more runout you have, the more likely you are to develop thickness variation. Until I measured runout, I used to clean the heck out of the hubs and rarely had issues as well – but then again, I always used new super-premium rotors and the applications had fairly generous tolerances. At the end of the day, the amount that you will get away with will depend on the individual application, the pad choice and your driving habits. Less is better – if possible.

Originally Posted By: bowlofturtle
This is great tool/reference for people who dont know how to do brakes the proper way.

I had to LOL @ your "rust" on those hubs. But i guess that is as bad as it gets in Cali, try coming to the midwest. You will learn about rust here.

But brakes are easy and stupid quick. If you were put on the clock, you can easily do job in say under 30 minutes, minus the bleeding and braking in the pads.


I've seen some pretty horrific pictures. I think flat rate is 2 hours on this job, not sure how you can do all of the steps “properly” in 30 min. I think my record is just under 90 minutes, and that was really pushing it.
 
well done. This is the far end of a brake job. Before I give up on lumpy brakes. I take stuff apart and wire wheel the hub and the rotor surface.. I don't mess with never seize, what is in the grease gun is fine. Cleaning up stuff including the glaze on the pads and clean brake material off the rotor. My cars were prone to this. I dunno about Hondas. YMMV
 
I've done this on a friend's car, while I probably didn't wirebrush the caliper bracket I did brush the daylights out of the hub, replaced the slide pin bushings since the boots look swollen and seeing green Permatex grease confirmed my suspicions of improper lubrication. I used Toyota brake rubber grease and Molykote M77 as they are close or the same as what Subaru specifies(Niglube RM-2 and Molykote AS880N respectively).
 
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