A Case For Minimalism

It's not uncommon for fast growth % numbers, when starting with almost nothing. Many companies, even ones now long gone, report huge initial growth.
The numbers do not support this.
Tesla ls no longer in start up mode; the company is in rapid growth mode; they brought up 2 new factories in 2022. Tesla is highly profitable and the most valuable car company in the world, by far.
This year, the Model Y will likely be the #1 selling vehicle in the world of any kind. The Model 3 is not far behind. These cars are hardly cheap, low margin cars like the Corolla. The 44% growth in 2022 was not from nothing; it was from a highly profitable prior year. Heck, analysts were expecting even more! Can you name any other car company were results even close to this? Even the mighty Ford reported they lost $2.2B last year.
 
im gonna build me a truck. steel tube chassis like a nascar or rock buggy, 4x4, manual (probably 6speed instead of 4 or 5speed though) turbo diesel with fully mechanical injection (like a Cummins but lighter) simple interior with basic radio and crank windows. no electronics to make it go or stop. if you can push start it you can drive it. probably will be underpowered brick with crap fuel economy, but I should be able to run it off of any oil in a pinch. if you have no electric power on modern cars you have no power steering, no brake assist, no fuel, no air (drive by wire throttle bodies) and no spark. if I make one of these and people are willing to pay for them, i might make more than one. i need to aquire the use of a machine shop and the knowledge of how to use it, although the drivetrain from assorted trucks over the years would fit the bill (12v p pump Cummins)
May I suggest a 1984 VW mechanically injected diesel pickup for you needs? You can even get one with a stick shift, no ac, and no power steering!
 

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Ok, let’s end this discussion by stating the facts.

Dead people are the ultimate minimalists because they own nothing. So stop competing with them.

/thread.
 
May I suggest a 1984 VW mechanically injected diesel pickup for you needs? You can even get one with a stick shift, no ac, and no power steering!
I wanted one of those for years! I don’t think I want one now, but for a while I sure did.
 
May I suggest a 1984 VW mechanically injected diesel pickup for you needs? You can even get one with a stick shift, no ac, and no power steering!
always wanted one, they're hard to find nowadays. a old diesel Toyota would be awesome. sadly good condition old trucks are hard to find
 
I don't think I'm a minimalist by any means. But I do have a 2007 Grand Cherokee (to pull my boat) and a 2017 VW Golf GTI (for every day use and autocross events.) I do keep things for a long time. I had the first boat for 30 years until I upgraded in 2015. Bought a house in 1984 and still live here.
 
I'm going to be polite as possible. Sorry, but "minimalism" is not a new car that requires a entire re-vamping of electrical grids and infrastructures to be adopted en mass to be workable. You want "minimalism," then walk, ride a bike, or take a bus. If you must have a vehicle, buy a 10-20 year old Camry or Civic with low miles. You'll get another 20 years of low cost reliability with minimal environmental footprint, waste, and maintenance.


Nope. Nationwide adoption of about 4%, almost entirely heavily represented in a unique weather and economic "climate" of California. Excellent weather, and extremely wealthy toys for the elite class who - trust me are NOT minimalistic. Impractical at best. EV ownership is generally car number 2 thru 5. The rest of the nation ranges from about 0% to 2% adoption.


False. EV battery realistic lifespan is about a decade. Advertised at 15 years, batteries never meet optimistic advertised goals. Costs something like $10k to replace. Sure they might improve and come down in cost. But as it stands now the first battery replacement will meet or exceed the value of the car at year 10-15. Technology, unlike mechanical devices, is easier to build in obsolescence. After year X companies stop supporting updates etc. and tech becomes obsolete and unworkable. How many old cell phones and laptops do you keep, versus disposable and getting new? Exactly. Not many or none.





Idealistic. None of that will happen. There will be incentives to make cars that last only beyond warranties and battery life spans to keep new buyers coming. Example: Current auto makers know exactly how to make plastics and "leather seats" last only beyond a certain age, and then fail. It's planned obsolescence but much easier with EVs than mechanical vehicles that people can actually fix and keep on the roads.

That's not really supported by reality, if you examine the consumer debt, perpetual auto loans, leases, renting of apartments and houses, etc. American consumers make really poor economic decisions in general, and often rent/lease, or take on loans (they generally cannot afford or are economically unsound).


That is not the model for auto makers who profit in selling vehicles. Auto makers (and appliance makers) learned long ago to make things only good enough to last thru warranty periods and slightly beyond. Also, when things break it keeps their mechanics perpetually employed as well. They also benefit from model updates. No chance this changes IMO.


Almost entirely speculative, FYI. No rational basis for it. May as well be Tulips or fly-by-night crypto.


A rebate that will not last indefinitely and probably go away with broader EV adoption. Also, you could buy a 2010 Civic or Camry for $5-10,000 and be far, far ahead of the cost analysis vs. a $30,000 EV.


I've run the numbers, and it's fictional to believe EVs are cheaper in the long run than ICE. But it depends heavily on many variables so it is not that simple. E.G. at about year 10, plan on a $10k battery for a EV. How about special chargers at a home? How about most people don't own homes with garages so where do apartment dwellers or similar charge their EVs? Did you factor these and other variables in?


No lack of depreciation for EVs. In fact, members on this forum have reported EVs flooding the used market lots and significant depreciation. Many dealers will not take EVs. And a recent study in CA concluded that 1 in 5 EV owners went back to ICE for a host of reasons including costs, convenience, reliability, affordability, repair costs, etc.

In sum, the EV fantasy is just that. It's a delusion. These are toys for wealthy people who own multiple vehicles, or generally have very untraditional unique lifestyles and wealth that the common American does not enjoy. Americas grids and infrastructure, and the battery technology, are decades and trillions of dollars away from being able to adopt widespread EVs. If left to FAIR MARKET competition (e.g. no rebates, no tax incentives, laws banning ICE, thumbs on the scales against ICE in favor of EVs etc.) broad adoption of EVs would be unable to compete for probably another few decades.

You want to be environmentally friendly and minimalist, go buy a well maintained low mileage car from the early 2000s. Take care of it. It'll be on the roads until 2040. That is the most environmentally sound and minimalist behavior for a car owner. Or ride a bike or walk or take public transit.
^This. 100%
'You want to be environmentally friendly and minimalist, go buy a well maintained low mileage car from the early 2000s. Take care of it. It'll be on the roads until 2040'

That is my plan: 05 minimalist ION1. It's in getting small repairs completed. New axles. Seats have been covered since year two. Looks like a late model still : the paint shines, tires are 6 months old. The rear bumper will be repainted later this month. And I can drive it from Tucson to Salt Lake in a day with three 15 minute stops for gas and some stretching.

Even after 18 years I still get enjoyment out of this car. And I was ambivalent about it when I bought in new in Jan 05.

See you in 2040.

I've owned six cars since 1981. I still have three of them My little brother has been running one of the six for over 10 years now. Traded one, another was rear ended and totaled.

As well, one car I have owned for 40 years. Another, 27 and the newest 18.

In all that time I have replaced one well worn engine in the Valiant.... back in 1988.

How many battery packs would I have had to replace during all that time @ $10,000 a crack?
 
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With the amount I drive, I'm confident that all 3 of my vehicles will be on the road long after I'm not. Does that make me a "minimalist" if I don't check out too soon?
 
3. Better fuel economy is subjective, user dependent, and is fuzzy math. Energy prices also change. 20 or so years ago, Diesel was cheaper than gas, and many people switched to diesel. Now it's more expensive. Go figure. The greater adoption of EVs will place greater strains on our grids and could easily cause electric prices to increase drastically, and gas to go down in price...
An article today supports what I wrote a few days ago.


"Inflation is hitting electricity rates, making EV home charging a more miserable experience for some drivers at the absolute worst time.

A new J.D. Power study of EV owners who use Level 2 home-charging stations found that overall satisfaction in the home charging experiences has declined 12 points since last year. (More on EV charger types here). A major factor in this decline in satisfaction was the inflationary rise in electricity prices, the study found...Only about half of EV owners in the study said they had an understanding of their local utility company programs for home charging.."

Once again, the uninformed consumer duped by the false over-promises of cheaper driving, are learning the hard way.
 
An article today supports what I wrote a few days ago.


"Inflation is hitting electricity rates, making EV home charging a more miserable experience for some drivers at the absolute worst time.

A new J.D. Power study of EV owners who use Level 2 home-charging stations found that overall satisfaction in the home charging experiences has declined 12 points since last year. (More on EV charger types here). A major factor in this decline in satisfaction was the inflationary rise in electricity prices, the study found...Only about half of EV owners in the study said they had an understanding of their local utility company programs for home charging.."

Once again, the uninformed consumer duped by the false over-promises of cheaper driving, are learning the hard way.
Kinda silly article; inflation is affecting energy costs as a whole, not just electricity. Did the EV owners think electricity is immune? There is no free ride, at least as far as I know of.

The article states a key problem problem is owners are not aware of off-peak charging and other cost saving opportunities.
Quote:
"Gruber pointed to several programs designed to ease the cost of EV home charging, including options to schedule charging at the most affordable times of day. But the J.D. Power study found that this is little awareness for these money-saving tricks, which brings down the overall experience."

In my case, raising energy costs in CA was the reason I installed solar. Even though it does not affect my monthly bill, I charge the car off-peak so that charging does not affect the grid during peak needs. Teslas come with a charging scheduler; I imagine all the cars do but I don't know that.
 
Kinda silly article; inflation is affecting energy costs as a whole, not just electricity. Did the EV owners think electricity is immune? There is no free ride, at least as far as I know of.

The article states a key problem problem is owners are not aware of off-peak charging and other cost saving opportunities.
Quote:
"Gruber pointed to several programs designed to ease the cost of EV home charging, including options to schedule charging at the most affordable times of day. But the J.D. Power study found that this is little awareness for these money-saving tricks, which brings down the overall experience."
I agree, the article is poorly researched, and poorly written, and fails to include a lot of key information. It is sloppy and incomplete. One major omission is the fact that the greater the EV adoption, the higher the grid strain, and therefore the energy costs will be at all times. The fact remains we continue to hear discontent from EV owners on numerous fronts.

raising energy costs in CA was the reason I installed solar. Even though it does not affect my monthly bill, I charge the car off-peak so that charging does not affect the grid during peak needs.
I think in some circumstances solar is a good idea. However it is also a cost to taxpayers who subsidize it and there are significant environmental costs mining materials and disposing of old panels, rarely factored into the ecosystem of the EV magic.
 
The first is that the best chance Tesla has for dominating the car market is to eliminate the need for their owners to buy another vehicle from anyone else, and the best way to differentiate themselves beyond their current image is to offer cars that will last 300,000 to 550,000 miles which is what they already do with their late-model vehicles.
You do realize that for a Tesla to last the 550,000 miles you're talking about, the battery would have to be able to survive over 1,800+ recharges. And that is assuming you AVERAGE a full 300 miles every single time you recharge it.

Batteries cost in the neighborhood of $10K+ to replace. In many cases depending how long they last, that cost can easily exceed the value of the vehicle. Tesla's fit into many categories. But "minimalism" along with not having to ever buy another one, are definitely not 2 of them.
 
The ultimate minimalism comes with the end of car ownership. I suspect that in the not too distant future we'll just order an autonomous robo-taxi on our phones and ride to our destination in privacy. No car ownership fees, parking issues or maintenance to worry about.
You will own nothing and be happy. I think I've heard that somewhere.

From all that has been written here, it seems that the vehicle market itself doesn't drive vehicle sales, but government mandates - a government run by bubble headed bureaucrats who could care less about anything but the agenda of the moment, which in this case, is "climate change" (cough, choke, wheeze) and marketeers.
 
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