A/C stop leak and "synthetic" refrigerant?

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Originally Posted By: OilFilters
Originally Posted By: ruhroh
I'll be the dimwit that goes against good advice. A can's worth of r134 is pretty bad for the environment; how's the vacuum? How long are you planning to keep the car? Are you willing to never have AC again?


Sorry, but this is not a concern I have. The EPA mandated R134A over the older stuff because it is better for the environment and they know most likely most vehicles will dump their charge at some point in their lifetime. I believe it's even used as a propellant in some aerosol products.

I'm considering switching over to a propane charge, or R290 as it's also known. You could argue it's better for the environment, but it's also cheaper and cools better.

Bottom line is I will never go without A/C. North Carolina heat and humidity is BRUTAL.
check out r152a. Its in computer cleaners and will work with pag oils. Of course the epa says you can only put 134 in your 134 system.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140700715001905
 
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Having to add refrigerant every year is a considerable leak. It's usually findable with an electronic detector.
 
Originally Posted By: OilFilters
I'm not asking anything about oil and I don't need the chicken littles to tell me the sky is falling about propane. I merely suggested I might try propane, and I am more specifically asking about the R134A replacement refrigerants sold in many places that claim to produce faster and better/more efficient cooling. Has anybody tried these products, and do they work as advertised?

Again, this question has nothing to do with oil. Don't get stuck on the word "synthetic", it's not referring to the oil and is mostly just marketing hype.

Example of "synthetic" refrigerant:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XQ7HRA/ref...687464&sr=1
It claims to lower duct temperatures by up to 15 degrees and reduce friction.

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
But you'll have propane leaking somewhere, possibly near the ignition system if you don't get the leak fixed or if it leaks again. Personally, I wouldn't do it. My local shop diagnoses and fixed my a/c for 150 bucks. It was a leaky o-ring.


With a leak so small as to leak maybe a pound of refrigerant over six months, there is absolutely no possibility of ignition. You cannot light propane in that small of quantity. I happen to have a lot of experience regarding the flammability limits of various gasses.

As for taking it to a shop, I already made it clear I don't do that, and $150 would buy 30 cans of R134A. That's a 15 year supply, if not longer.


Dude, you came here for free advice and you're getting it. I've been working on all things mechanical for 40 years and even I don't do my own A/C repairs. You need special equipment like high/low pressure gauges to do it right and eventually you might leak out all your oil and your system will be trashed then. Do what you want but don't cry and whine about free advice. If you're an expert with flammable gases I would think you make enough money to get your car fixed. instead of ridiculous solutions like using propane that could start a fire and get youself/others killed on the public roads where everyone else has to follow the rules and not do dumb stuff like that.
 
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Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Originally Posted By: OilFilters
ruhroh said:
Also, I think 'synthetic' R134 must be referring to the lubricant/oil portion since all 134 are synthetic and the same. Kind of like charging more for 'synthetic' DOT3 or 4.


I was just going by what the cans at Walmart say. I'm sure it's mostly marketing nonsense. They claim it provides superior cooling with a quicker startup time, but not sure how well that really works. Curious if anybody has actually tried it.



Two broad classes of synthetic refrigeration oil used in automotive A/C are PAG ( https://refrigeranthq.com/f-a-q/what-is-pag-oil/ ) & POE ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyolester ) .

If you believe the marketing , it will wash the car , walk the dog , take out the trash , do the dishes .........
Click to expand...
 
I have had some luck with the stuff with a dye & using the UV flash light .

I first replace the Schrader Valve as preventive maintenance . If it is serviceable . They are inexpensive . I pick them up at Johnstone Supply .
 
Originally Posted By: OilFilters
As for taking it to a shop, I already made it clear I don't do that, and $150 would buy 30 cans of R134A. That's a 15 year supply, if not longer.


True, but refrigerant leaks only get worse over time. When it gets bad enough, you will want to fix it. The stop leaks that only swells the O rings is perfectly fine to use and won't harm anything. Problem is that you probably have some other sort of leak like a compressor shaft seal that won't be fixed by that, or anything else from a can. Now if you are only leaking one can out every 6 months, and it stays like that, then I would just keep putting in the cans too. Finding AC leaks can be very difficult.
 
Originally Posted By: OilFilters
I'm not asking anything about oil and I don't need the chicken littles to tell me the sky is falling about propane. I merely suggested I might try propane, and I am more specifically asking about the R134A replacement refrigerants sold in many places that claim to produce faster and better/more efficient cooling. Has anybody tried these products, and do they work as advertised?


Ice32 works. And you can buy it in cans with the proper PAG oil in it as well.
 
I'll go against the grain here...

I had a leak in my Corolla several years ago and topped the system off with one of the kits that includes refrigerant with stop leak; it was an Interdynamics kit with a gauge built into the charging hose. I had to top it off one more time I think year before last, and it's still ice cold this spring.

The system works great, I don't think anything got "plugged up" etc.

21.gif
 
A/C stop leak doesn't work by 'swelling the o-rings'. The o-rings are HNBR and shrinking o-rings is not likely the problem.

Some old-school stop leak compounds make the lubricant "spit stringy", which was a desirable property with old R12 systems. An oil film was essential for sealing the pores in the rubber hoses. This doesn't work nearly as well at limiting leaks with R134a lubricants and barrier hoses.

A second type crystallizes in the presence of moisture. The escaping refrigerant chills the leak point, causing condensation. The moisture creates a matrix of solidified additive, which gradually becomes dense enough to seal as more of the additive seeps out and contacts the hydrated matrix. Ideally the plug works its way down into the pinhole. Otherwise every time you disturb the crusty surface gunk, the leak needs to re-seal.

The best solution here is to verify that you have a UV additive in the refrigerant oil, and search for the leak point with a UV LED flashlight.
 
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Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: OilFilters
As for taking it to a shop, I already made it clear I don't do that, and $150 would buy 30 cans of R134A. That's a 15 year supply, if not longer.


True, but refrigerant leaks only get worse over time. When it gets bad enough, you will want to fix it. The stop leaks that only swells the O rings is perfectly fine to use and won't harm anything. Problem is that you probably have some other sort of leak like a compressor shaft seal that won't be fixed by that, or anything else from a can. Now if you are only leaking one can out every 6 months, and it stays like that, then I would just keep putting in the cans too. Finding AC leaks can be very difficult.
it will swell the seals in my ac machine!
 
Originally Posted By: djb

The best solution here is to verify that you have a UV additive in the refrigerant oil, and search for the leak point with a UV LED flashlight.


I have found it best to let the dye circulate in the A/C system for a few days . If you have problems finding a leak , wait until dark & I was able to see it better .
 
So many of you are missing the point...

I did not ask how to find or fix the leak. I have absolutely no interest in this. It takes me three minutes and five dollars to top off the system every 6 months. Anything that takes more than the combination of 8 minutes and five dollars is not worth the effort. And I don't care if it's killing the polar bears.

Even if I spent thousand completely replacing the entire system (which is laughable to even suggest) there is no guarantee that it will work perfectly or never leak.

Glad we could have a three page thread that is totally off topic. I'm not going to bother reading any further replies. It took me 10 times longer to deal with this thread than to top off the system.
 
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