99 Dodge Magnum 5.9 bottom end refresh

[tshephard]

Around 100k got intermittent oil pressure lights.
Soaked and cleaned pickup through drain hole - went away for awhile.
Now at 150K, opened up, new plate gasket, and now into bearings.
Pickup was 6/7s blocked with 'crystal'-y debris, and some (5 sq in) on block near pickup - but not a sludged up motor at all.
All rods down to copper, mains not so bad, except #3 - the thrust bearing - and it's crank scored.
All seem worn, not foreign deposits/embedded.
I cleaned the #3 journal a tad, back polished another tad, and fitting 1's and 0's mixed to all positions.
Rods smelled horribly of fuel (started project just after an oil change, that was also fuel-y.)
New pump ready to go in; soaked, reamed, and picked pickup clean.

What causes a crystal-y debris?
Will fuel thin oil (but yet not cause overfill) and 'cut' bearings?
Can plate gasket somehow affect oiling or bearings?

 

[JustN89]

I'm no expert here, but that doesn't look like a really well maintained engine. I'd hazard a guess that your problems stem from extended/missed oil changes. Could possibly just be the lighting, but it certainly doesn't look good. Fuel will thin oil and absolutely cause lubrication problems when extreme enough, but there's more going on here than that. If you're concerned about fuel (leaking injectors, maybe?), I'd either run a used oil analysis once it's all back together to see what fuel % is, or while the truck is down, I'd remove the injectors and have them cleaned.

 

[PontiacHO]

Your post is hard to understand. If the mains and rods are worn to the point of displaying the copper layer then the cam bearings are worn and need replaced also. You may get more oil pressure that eliminates the warning light but it’s a lot of work that’s short lived. A reman long block would ensure a solid outcome…

 

[mattd]

All you’re really doing is throwing water at a grease fire. JMO, I would have pulled it and gone through it.

 

[oggb]

Looks like someone Dodged a little too much maintenance.

 

[GR_CoB]

Looks like someone Dodged a little too much maintenance.

 

[Chris142]

I think the top end is a sludge monster. As it breaks off it's getting caught in the pickup tube.

 

[DuckRyder]

Can we get some better pictures? Is that metal swarf (or hair) in the pickup.

I agree the cam bearings are likely shagged, I disagree that a parts store rebuild is a good choice.

 

[OVERKILL]

You've moved beyond sludge into the crystallized varnish stage and that's what has broken off and plugged your pick-up. This engine clearly hasn't had a great maintenance history and, as others have noted, needs a full rebuild.

 

[bdcardinal]

You've moved beyond sludge into the crystallized varnish stage and that's what has broken off and plugged your pick-up. This engine clearly hasn't had a great maintenance history and, as others have noted, needs a full rebuild.

Ya I have never been a fan of doing bearings with the engine still in the vehicle. You can't properly measure clearance that way, even with Plasti-gauge.

 

[benjy]

good luck doing half a worn abused engine!!!

 

[tshephard]

Try to respond in order...

Per my own ownership, if anything, over maintained - extra oil changes, viscosities trying to get to periodic oil lights.
At times it would come and go, as though something was moving?
Bringing it back up will include injector checks - not in the garage!

I'm here now, had a 3 week period where I didn't need a truck.
Future plans will schedule a motor, but again, I'm here today.

Again...

And again, the truck did receive scheduled maintenance, and more trying to get to problems - such as plenum plate work, chasing light, etc.

And again...

The heads were changed 10k ago. (Manifold bolts broke, failed inspection, out to machine shop for removal, seats cracked, EQ heads vey inexpensive solution.) The top end was not sludged.

I will do some more pics. The hanging junk was silicon-y, but yet golden. I would have thought gasket scrapings, but never seen silicon change colors.
I'm worried about cam bearings myself, but here I am today.

Someone who's seen crystalized something! OK, varnish is source! Any experience with PVC or plenum plate problems that would localize varnish crystallization?

Actually, getting repeatable PG results after a bit of learning curve.

And again...

And here I am today.
I'll add a pic of the only other small dirty area.
I sure wish I had 5 to 60 grand to throw at the problem, and the right trucks were in stock, but todays situation is improving this as much as possible with what I have.

I would appreciate any knowledgeable advice towards resolving problems.

 

[OVERKILL]

Can't you pull the engine? If the crank specs out OK and can be properly cleaned-up, you can reuse it, but doing it in the vehicle is just inviting problems.

You stated "during your ownership", how long have you owned the vehicle?

What have you used for oil? It doesn't matter if you changed it weekly if you used like City Star or something cheap with no approvals.

 

[tshephard]

OK - since birth, Mobil 1.
This month bottom refresh after hunting for oil light / pickup problems.
Maybe, probably later. (Not in the summer, with a short block sitting, waiting, appointment with AT guy, etc.)
Also, when I did the heads - the pistons and bores were great.
I was expecting a pickup cleaning (had seen it before at 100K) and bearing check - as I am doing!

Anyway, more pics:
1 my scratch on an UNCLEANED rear main,
2 my scratch on an UNCLEANED mid main (they were on the table),
4 view up from oil pump, to plug that diverts to filter - it caught my eye shining down at me! and
3 looking up at rear main, where pump attaches. The area on the right web is, to me, the only real dirty (not really dirty, but actually dirty) area in the engine, beside that pickup and just a bit of material in a valley in the pan that doesn't drain. This is a 22 year old, 150k motor with a bit of dirt in the unfinished, sand cast areas, and not much else but as described. My guess is, for some reason, that bit at the right web 'sludged' up and it fell to the pickup. Maybe it was cold there, I don't know? Also, this time , the plate leak was at the rear.

 

[OVERKILL]

That's a ton of varnish for an engine that supposedly was run on Mobil 1. I've torn down several SBF's that were run on M1 and all were spotless.

You didn't answer my question though, or, were vague:

- How long have you owned the vehicle? You said "Per your own ownership" which implies somebody else owned it at some point.

 

[JustN89]

which implies somebody else owned it at some point.

Owned it and never maintained it. That engine looks really bad.

 

[kschachn]

That's nearly humorous that it's been on Mobil 1 its entire life. Either there is something seriously wrong with the engine (and has been for a long time) or the oil was changed two or three times in its sorry life.

My "sludge monster" 1MZ-FE at nearly 450,000 miles looks far better than that using Mobil 1 most of its life. I've posted pictures here when I've changed the valve cover gaskets. Also my 1NZ-FE at over 250,000 miles.

 

[bdcardinal]

Random question, and don't take any offense to this, just trying to figure out why things look so bad. You mentioned that the heads were replaced/taken off not that long ago. Was the oil changed right after that? I ask because that almost looks like there was some debris from prepping the block along with coolant contamination in there.

 

[tshephard]

Wow...
Since birth was a way of saying since the original purchase at the dealership in April of 1999.

And, was maintained on M1 for it's life.
(Except, probably, any dealer oil changes coincident with other service - mostly plate.)
Not a discussion: I (and it) have been M1 only since before I bought this truck - probably 94 or so.

Many vehicles are still pretty on M1.
All my other vehicles stay pristine.
I agree there's something about this one.

These motors spent time with leaking plenum plates before repairs.
Which would / could be like a PCV failure.

bd - thanks for trying to actually contribute.
Oil changed right after, and a few times since heads.
(Dodge had been in it at least twice under warranty - plenum plate.)
I am very careful with bits and pieces - even match them up to make sure.
Why do you mention coolant? A particular clue?
( I ask because, as I mentioned head seat cracks, this vehicle and it's peers also suffer heater core problems which for me went away after head changes. I suspect, but cannot prove, that combustion gases were forced from cracks into water system - and I suppose vice versa was possible too. I do know my radiator vacuum system returned to working normal after head changes.)

...trying to figure out why things look so bad... is a good place to start

 

[TeamZero]

I'll chime in....these are a tough old motor. The scratches are nothing. Dont bother with plastigage, Just replace bearing with what ever was in it, I assume std. size. Wash good and lube well with oil on assembly and torque to spec. Make sure change rear main seal too. Use new oil pump..If u know what u are doing it will go another 100k. The crap in pickup is stuff from not being careful when it was apart a couple of times.